Family moving from UK to Chicago-please help with practical Q's on Kenilworth/Winnetka/Wilmette schools, commute, etc. (Evanston: sales, real estate)
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I'm a newbie to this forum and have already learned a lot from reviewing other threads. We are a family of 4 (plus two dogs) who will be moving to Chicago this summer 2014 after 5 years working in London. My husband and I both work full time and our office is based in downtown Chicago (by Ogilvie station) but we also travel some for work and will drive to clients in the area - mainly north/northwest.
We lived in San Francisco/San Jose before UK and have never lived in Chicago but did a quick scouting trip in November and looked at several towns including Hinsdale, Lincoln Park area of Chicago, and the North Shore (from Evanston to Glencoe).
We are learning towards NS area (Winnetka, Kenilworth, Wilmette) although we haven't ruled anything fully out yet. I have several factors and questions that will help us narrow it down. I might need to break these questions into separate posts but will list all here to give a full picture so sorry for length of post and I would appreciate any input on questions!
Criteria are schools, commute, community feel/livability, Nanny availability, access to parks/outdoors and other conveniences.
Priority 1 - Schools
We have 6 yr old and a 4 yr old who are in a private international school near London. We see that there is a private school in Winnetka (North Shore Country Day School) and the public schools in all these districts appear to be highly rated.
Questions:
a) Full day kindergarten - this is important to me as we see how well our daughter has done with full day kindergarten equivalent in the UK and we really want our son to have the same benefit. At age 3/4, he already goes to a program from 8:30-12:30 5 days per week that he loves so I don't want to backslide. It seams that only the private schools and Joseph Sears in Kenilworth currently offer a full day kindergarten program?
b) North Shore Country Day School/private vs NS public schools - any views on this? Seems silly to send kids to a private school when the public schools are so well rated but I might consider this if there is a big difference in class size, opportunities etc Our kids currently have class sizes between 9-15 kids and a lot of 1 on 1 attention. What is the average class size for public elementary schools in NS?
Priority 2 - Commute. We can live with up to 1 hour commute each way so have looked at NS and West suburbs as well as Lincoln Park. We thought we might like Lincoln Park hoping it would be like some of the London neighborhoods but when we investigated, it just didn't appeal to us enough to outweigh the disadvantages of urban living.
Questions:
a) Winnetka/Wilmette/Kenilworth/Glencoe villages or Hinsdale - what is the parking situation at these places and any warnings we need to heed?
For example, we know in some cities that the popular commuter train stations have waiting lists for parking permits OR that parking fills up by 8am, etc and our schedules are such that we do not always commute during the "normal" hours. Therefore, we either need to plan to live within a few blocks of the train or be able to know we can easily park at say 10am. From experience, we would rather live 10 minutes further north on a train line to get easy parking or a short walk.
b) North metra line to NS villages vs west line to Hinsdale - any big differences? Can you generally get a seat on these trains? It helps if we can be productive on the trains to do emails, etc.
Other priorities
a) Community feel - obviously these are all very nice communities. We were pleasantly surprised by Hinsdale but it almost felt "too cute" in the downtown which is weird to say I realize. We like a mix of new/old and quirky (my husband grew up in Berkeley CA) and love ethnic food so would like to be within driving of some good food although this is lower on the priority list. We also would love a house with a good size yard and streets with sidewalks and lots of trees. Are we on the right track with North Shore?
b) Nanny availability - we place a high priority on finding really great professional nannies that become part of the family and who we can count on when we have to travel etc. One reason I am leaning towards NS is that I thought there might be a better pool of nannies than in western suburbs due to proximy of Evanston, etc but I could be totally wrong. Any good agencies to recommend?
If I could get a US visa for our current nannies I would in a heartbeat as we are all depressed about leaving them.
Sorry for such a long post but thanks in advance for any input!
This is a long post and I will probably knock off multiple replies to the various topics.
First, an easy one -- Metra. The fact is that service along the BNSF from places like Hinsdale is fastest. This is due to the very simple straight shot that this line has to the Loop. More expresses are also on the schedule becuase there is no freight line that crosses the BNSF tracks. The few cargo / coal trains that do run on BNSF tracks do not have to go into any large freight hubs as that line has a facility well west of the metropolitian region. I have never not got a seat if I get to the station with a reasonable lead time (5-10 minutes before arrival) and even in rare cases where I have been running late to catch the train I have always been able to squeeze into a car in the middle to sit down. The super short commute time (well under half an hour) means that I often would not bother with anything more involved than a few quick emails.
When it comes to parking the fact is that there is not a whole lot of permit parking available. There is, however, a daily fee lot that is just a little bit further from the regular lots and not significantly more costly. You might be out of luck if you wait till well past the morning rush BUT in those cases there is often ample on street parking on regular residential streets if you aren't already living close enough to walk. Hinsdale (and neighboring Clarendon Hills) are very walkable towns with plently of sidewalks as well as enough shops and resturants that lots of people are always out and about.
When it comes to 'ethnic food' the selection in nearby Westmont is really only topped inside Chicago -- very good Indian choices as well as large selection of very well regarded Mexican, Chinese, Japanese and Thai are all excellent. The selection is notably less wide ranging on the North Shore.
There is similarly no shortage of care givers, either live-in or those that drive themselves from more affordable towns that are nearby -- English speaking care givers originally from Eastern Europe or Asia / Pacific are common. The affordability of living in Lemont, Villa Park or similar towns is better than one is likely to find in Evanston and caregivers can thus afford.
The less easy to draw a hard rule is about schools -- the North Shore is served by a number of well regarded, mostly smaller, elementary schools. Each of the various districts has some unique twists on how things are done but overall the performance of any of the schools is laudable regardless of the specifics like full day vs partial kindergarten, sending children out for midday meals, offering foreign languages in lower grades, specific of class sizes and degree to which there are more resources for kids with special learning situations.
In contrast should one choose Hinsdale or Clarendon Hills the philosophy across D181 is for each of the neighborhood elementary schools and the two middle schools to be as uniformly high performing as possible. While some buildings are larger and can accomodate more students there is committment to keep education offerings very similar. This has worked out very well and all of the D181 schools are very well rated on the Illinois State Board of Education Honor Roll for Academic Excellence.
I know some folks that have choosen to send their children to private schools including North Shore Country Day and places like Avery Coonley which is close to Hinsdale. For most such parents the decision is really about the social aspects that this changes for themselves and their children, much like some families also choose to send their children to traditional residential schools out of tradition. The edcuational environment generally does offer a lower ratio of students to faculty but there is definately a point below which reduced class size offers diminishing returns in not just educational attention but socially as well with some families feeling that the mix of children remains too "cloistered" and any slight tension is magnified by the lack of alternatives.
I would strongly suggest trying to spend as much time as possible hanging out in any town you are considering. It very much sounds like you and your partner work together, a situation that is exceedingly rare in my experience - it is much more common for affluent families throughout the region to have only a single working parent. In rare cases where both parents do work they are often employed in the medical field and I honestly can't even think of many business owners where both parents work side by side. This presents some distinct challenges for not just childcare but a whole host of social type interactions from sports to school involvement to the practical matters like weekly grocery shopping and such. It may very well be make sense to spend as much time as possible in a hotel or even renting before you buy any home and find it less than desired...
In terms of NS - at the risk of stating the obvious - Kenilworth has the advantage of being generally walkable to the train and to Sears full-day Kindergarten. But the homes are more expensive and often older / in need of updating. Kenilworth also lacks a good downtown. Wilmette CAGE area seems to be a better value, with a better downtown, and there is a Kindergarten enrichment program in the afternoons. Winnetka is a bit more pretentious than Wilmette, which of course some people prefer, and comes with a slightly longer train ride. I don't know about the Kindergarten options there. There are tons of nannies who go to all of the areas you mention, so I wouldn't worry so much about that.
I guess I'm biased towards the North Shore, but I think I'd counter Chet's concern about the lack of ethnic grocery shopping by stating that it's pretty easy to get to ethnic shopping in towns like Glenview, Skokie, Niles, etc. from most of the North Shore suburbs that you're looking at. Most of the stuff you'd find in west suburban Westmont can be found in those towns (Indian, Filipino, etc. etc.).
As far as trains go, Kenilworth & Wilmette naturally have a short commute time to the Loop. In terms of sheer distance, I believe they are closer to the Loop than Hinsdale. Even Winnetka has some express runs that skip a lot of the stops on the way to Chicago. Another big advantage with the North Shore is that you're also within much closer driving distance of the hip North Side of Chicago (ie. Lincoln Park, Wicker Park, etc.) compared to the people living in the western suburbs. Furthermore, the only time the Hinsdale train travel time will be nice is during the rush hour expresses. From the near North Shore (ie. Wilmette, etc.), the commute time is always fairly short because Wilmette is really not that far from Chicago. It's only one stop north of Evanston - Central Street for crying out loud lol.
Once you get up to the Lake County North Shore burbs (ie. Highland Park, Lake Forest, etc.), I'll have to agree with you that Hinsdsale's commute to the Loop is a lot better (via Metra). But compared to the Cook County North Shore burbs (ie. Wilmette, Kenilworth, Winnetka, etc.), I'll stick with the North Shore for commutes to the Loop.
I never said the UP-N line has terrible service, it mostly has similar travel times during non-express times to the BNSF. For the OP, and their desire to leave home after 10 AM this is mostly going to mean crummy choices on both lines. That said, as Hinsdale has three stations (West Hinsdale, Hinsdale & Highlands) as well as adjacent Clarendon Hills, all in an area that at least as compact as Wilmette/Kenilworth/Winnetka, this opens up more options for either living within walking distance to the train or finding parking at daily fee spaces or unrestricted on-street parking, which I know from experience is rarer on the North Shore. Also I specifically said that rush hour express service is superior, as the way stops are you can pretty much expect to get a seat and despite the longer linear distance the trains travel at higher speed so best case express trains are a bit quicker on the BNSF.
I also will point out that experience and even travel estimation sites like google maps show that despite congestion near the west edge of 290 driving into the Loop from the nearer western suburbs is not signficantly different than doing so via the routes that available to those on the North Shore -- the relative distance may be a bit closet but this is offset by having to use either signficantly congested Edens or really on very heavily traveld surface streets that are generally quite undersized to appease folks that do not like wider roads running through thier towns. The advantage one has, especially for midday type commutes, is that alternative routes like Ogden (which is quite wide through much of it's length) and the Stevenson (a bit more circuitous, but much higher speeds due to lrelstively widely spaced entrance ramps...) afford opportunity to circumvent traffic. Additionally the easy access to but Midway as well as O'Hare affords business travelers multiple options for air travel....
The bottomline is that one's unique situation with regard to work / commuting as well as broader desires to find the right fit and of course to do this all within a reasonable budget / time frame are quite a challenge -- even the most experienced relocation focused real estate agents can't substitute for spending as much time on the ground as possible and getting lots of first hand feedback.
If the OP wants to rent a home they are going to find, like another relocation family that posted on these boards recently, that few rentals are available to families with multiple pets and the costs can be shockingly high. While the theoretical pluses of renting are nice the practical hurdles are quite high..
Last edited by chet everett; 01-15-2014 at 07:21 AM..
Thanks everyone! This is very helpful and I agree that I need to spend some more time on the ground in these short-listed communities. It sounds as though mid-day parking can be a bit of a challenge in many areas although I did call the Winnetka city council and they seemed to imply there was sufficient mid-day parking - is that just a sales pitch?
Chet - as you say, we are a bit of a rare situation as most of our work colleagues with similar careers have had one parent either stay at home or take a less demanding job. Just to clarify on your comment, my husband and I do not actually work together but we happen to both be partners within the same huge firm. We are also "older" parents (early 40's) and not to digress too much from the topic at hand but I invested 15+ years in my career prior to having kids and although my kids are my first priority, I also love my job and I'm trying to balance albeit with a significant lack of sleep at times! Hence our focus on things like mid-day parking and such at train stations as we try to make our work schedules flex around the edges.
To answer another question, we would prefer to buy as the idea of relocating from the UK and moving again does not sound fun. That may not be realistic but that is our hope if we find the right house/location. With that said, from my observations so far, I don't think we could go too far wrong in any of these locations. I have a real estate agent feeding me new home listings in both Hinsdale and North Shore locations. I still have a perhaps emotional pull towards Kenilworth primarily due to the idea of a school that goes from PK all the way to 8th grade plus full day kindergarten but the home inventory is certainly less and not as many downtown options.
Hinsdale is probably the wild card. I didn't even want to look at it before as I didn't like the feel of the whole freeways getting there but once we entered the actual town it was charming although still not quite as appealing to me as North Shore. Based on the parking situation, it seems we would have to find a house walkable to the train as I don't love the daily fee lot idea and when we visited mid-day those pay lots were totally full.
Re ethnic food good to know we can be fine in either location. Frankly, the ethnic food options beyond Indian in the UK are not too great so my prior high expectations of good Thai, Mexican, Chinese, etc from San Francisco have been lowered! We did try both a Greek place in Winnetka and a Sushi place in Wilmette that were both pretty good so that was positive!
Any more input would be great, especially on schools and/or parking situations!
In terms of NS - at the risk of stating the obvious - Kenilworth has the advantage of being generally walkable to the train and to Sears full-day Kindergarten. But the homes are more expensive and often older / in need of updating. Kenilworth also lacks a good downtown. Wilmette CAGE area seems to be a better value, with a better downtown, and there is a Kindergarten enrichment program in the afternoons. Winnetka is a bit more pretentious than Wilmette, which of course some people prefer, and comes with a slightly longer train ride. I don't know about the Kindergarten options there. There are tons of nannies who go to all of the areas you mention, so I wouldn't worry so much about that.
"Wilmette CAGE area seems to be a better value, with a better downtown, and there is a Kindergarten enrichment program in the afternoons. Winnetka is a bit more pretentious than Wilmette, which of course some people prefer, and comes with a slightly longer train ride."
I don't live on the North Shore but your statment makes you sound like a d***. I'm sure everytown has their own positve and negative but to classify a whole town as pretenious is ignorant.
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