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We look down on people who have a perfectly good education (BA in economics from Dominican) as someone who is beneath us just because they didn't get an ivy league education. Right or wrong, many will consider the city colleges and local colleges such as Dominican as community college.
We look down upon those who don't make over 100K per year.
I have actually gotten more liberal as I have gotten older, coming from an extremely conservative (but open-minded background). I actually support economic stimulus instead of tax cuts as $1 of economic spending creates $1.50 in stimulus vs. $1 in tax cuts creates $0.75 in stimulus (some people just save the money and don't spend it).
I don't know if promis1 is from Elmwood Park or not (they may be). But to trash them and say just because they didn't get an MBA from Northwestern or make 100K per year that they are somehow beneath us and unable to move to a more affluent suburb is not right. We (including myself) should all be ashamed of ourselves.
Someone who makes 50-60K per year is way better off than the gangbangers I live around. And so what if they have to live in Rolling Meadows instead of say Arlington Heights because of affordability, this is still much better than say living in one of my apartments in Humboldt Park.
Promis1 may hearken to the days before white flight, but to trash them because of their background (education, money, conservative culture) is not fair and not right.
I would much rather have hispanics move into my area than former CHA residents who don't work. Sure, hispanics have a gang problem
We should all be ashamed. I know I am.
Thanks for the support- and You had it right- I make 65k/yr. and support a family of 4. Not rich and not poor. I am a pure middle class, white conservative that cares about preseving my neighborhoods values and ethics. Thats it.
Good post. You're right about not picking on Promis1. The one thing I hate about the internet is how quickly people lose civility and also how difficult it can be sometimes to say something in a way that doesn't offend.
I'm not an elitist. I'm a curmudgeon. And a bohemian before being bohemian was cool. I'm a proud white ethnic (Irish,German) with blue-collar roots. My father designed the plumbing/water system in Marina Towers before the mob put him out of biz because he wouldn't pay to play. My mother was a ballerina. Her mother was a union organizer. Both of my parents grew up in Austin, in a part that was torn down to build the Ike. I don't look down on people because of what they do or do not make, but I do look down on the lazy, the criminal, the mediocre, the armchair intellectural who is morally dishonest, and the professional whiner/victim. Those are my greatest sins.
I've gotten much more conservative as I've gotten older! Just goes to show how people are uniquely different.
You are kind to speak up for Promisl. Whatever happened to the American idea that "I don't have to agree with what you say but I will defend with my death your right to say it???" I despise name-calling.
Thank you for speaking of freedom of everyones speech.
The restuarant/bar strip in Edison Park is about a block long near the train station. Not exactly an entertainment mecca. Most of the neighborhood is residential. Also, if the craziness at the Edison Park fair is as John describes, I'd rather avoid it. I don't care if the gangbangers are white, black, Hispanic, or Asian, or the age of the gangbangers, I'll avoid them.
As far as transportaion goes, I was talking more about public transportation, which I clarified in later posts. Oak Park has that in spades over Park Ridge. Since I have no kids, schools are basiclly meaningless to me. I've just heard good things about OPRF. I prefer a more urban vibe which Oak Park has. Park Ridge is WAAAY too sleepy for me. If I had to live in a suburb, Oak Park would be the one I'd pick. (Forest Park or Berwyn might also be places I'd pick.)
I am a pure middle class, white conservative that cares about preseving my neighborhoods values and ethics. Thats it.
A neighborhood can not have values or ethics as it is not an animate object.
The people who live there may share a common set of values and ethics, but when the mindset that you deserve your neighborhood and have every right to protect it from change becomes prevalent it is easy to think it acceptable to keep others out through, oh I don't know, white hats or burning crosses.
Thanks for the support- and You had it right- I make 65k/yr. and support a family of 4. Not rich and not poor. I am a pure middle class, white conservative that cares about preseving my neighborhoods values and ethics. Thats it.
I can identify with this. Part of the problem with the more violent neighborhoods and suburbs are that it's disconcerting to me imagine myself or decent people living there amongst the violent crime, drugs and other moral decay. Not so much fear of being a victim of violent crime. That the values of the neighborhood are such that this scummy behavior is accepted as a part of life.
In some supposedly "sheltered" suburb like Orland Park, if you told someone about an armed robbery, they'd act shocked. That someone would actually point a gun at you and demand whatever little money you had in your pocket at the threat of your life. Their mouth would be gaping open, saying stuff like "He did what?", "That's awful!". Versus in a neighborhood or suburb where this kind of stuff happens weekly or daily, where people would shrug and say it's important not to walk alone after dark.
These kind of violent crimes ARE shocking to me! And I guess I feel more comfortable living amongst people who feel the same way. And would certainly prefer my kids growing up in a place with such neighborhood values, where these types of behavior are shocking and appalling.
This is what I interpret promis to mean as to "neighborhood values and ethics". And it's important to me too. I don't think he's talking about church attendance, what goes on inside people's bedrooms or any other socially conservative agenda like that.
So now it's a conservative value to be disgusted at the thought of having a gun stuck to your head? Count me in, then. I'm ultra-conservative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatpuff
I can identify with this. Part of the problem with the more violent neighborhoods and suburbs are that it's disconcerting to me imagine myself or decent people living there amongst the violent crime, drugs and other moral decay. Not so much fear of being a victim of violent crime. That the values of the neighborhood are such that this scummy behavior is accepted as a part of life.
In some supposedly "sheltered" suburb like Orland Park, if you told someone about an armed robbery, they'd act shocked. That someone would actually point a gun at you and demand whatever little money you had in your pocket at the threat of your life. Their mouth would be gaping open, saying stuff like "He did what?", "That's awful!". Versus in a neighborhood or suburb where this kind of stuff happens weekly or daily, where people would shrug and say it's important not to walk alone after dark.
These kind of violent crimes are shocking to me! And I guess I feel more comfortable living amongst people who feel the same way. And would certainly prefer my kids growing up in a place with such neighborhood values, where these types of behavior are shocking and appalling.
This is what I interpret promis to mean as to "neighborhood values and ethics". And it's important to me too. I don't think he's talking about church attendance, what goes on inside people's bedrooms or any other socially conservative agenda like that.
So now it's a conservative value to be disgusted at the thought of having a gun stuck to your head? Count me in, then. I'm ultra-conservative.
Guess I’m ultra-conservative too! Wow, never knew that. Had a gun stuck to my head once – while delivering pizzas in DeKalb. Don’t want that ever repeated again! Guess Meatpuff missed my post about calling the police every time we see something even slightly out of whack. Oh well. Believe me, no one, around where I live at least, accepts scummy behavior as part of life. Urban-dwellers tend to be more diligent about dealing with scummy behavior than their suburban counterparts, because there's no false sense of security.
Obviously, people who live in low crime rate areas want to feel good about how safe they are, so they tend to be the worst about making sweeping assumptions from crime stats. In reality, they're probably not much safer than those in more "deadly" areas. This is my 11th year in Oak Park/Berwyn. 5 in Oak Park and going on 6 now in Berwyn. Suffered from a crime ONE TIME. Five years ago, some punks tagged our (alley) garage door. That’s it. No assaults, no batteries, no garage break ins, no home invasions, no attempted home invasions, no pit bull attacks, nothing. I’m not a special case either. Plenty of friends all over Berwyn, Oak Park and Forest Park, and they’ve nothing to report either. It's just not that unsafe. Bottom line.
Guess I’m ultra-conservative too! Wow, never knew that. Had a gun stuck to my head once – while delivering pizzas in DeKalb. Don’t want that ever repeated again! Guess Meatpuff missed my post about calling the police every time we see something even slightly out of whack. Oh well. Believe me, no one, around where I live at least, accepts scummy behavior as part of life. Urban-dwellers tend to be more diligent about dealing with scummy behavior than their suburban counterparts, because there's no false sense of security.
Obviously, people who live in low crime rate areas want to feel good about how safe they are, so they tend to be the worst about making sweeping assumptions from crime stats. In reality, they're probably not much safer than those in more "deadly" areas. This is my 11th year in Oak Park/Berwyn. 5 in Oak Park and going on 6 now in Berwyn. Suffered from a crime ONE TIME. Five years ago, some punks tagged our (alley) garage door. That’s it. No assaults, no batteries, no garage break ins, no home invasions, no attempted home invasions, no pit bull attacks, nothing. I’m not a special case either. Plenty of friends all over Berwyn, Oak Park and Forest Park, and they’ve nothing to report either. It's just not that unsafe. Bottom line.
Thinking back, I guess places like Berwyn and especially Oak Park really are different, where so much of the problems come in from outside. You have to think if you could pick up OP, residents and all, and plop it down 10 miles west of its current location, it would have crime on the level of its neighbors like Wheaton, because the residents have those type of values. I never should have lumped in those rare areas where so much of the crime is from outside (or allowed them to be implicitly lumped in). An aside: yes Berwyn has less of its crime from the outside, but also has substantially less to begin with.
Actually I remember reading your post about calling the police everytime anything is out of whack
That's good that no one in your Berwyn neighborhood considers that kind of crap as acceptable. That's what makes the difference in a neighborhood being good or bad ultimately. And it's hard to judge from the outside. And it's even harder to judge whether those people are moving away, or continuing to move in.
I can identify with this. Part of the problem with the more violent neighborhoods and suburbs are that it's disconcerting to me imagine myself or decent people living there amongst the violent crime, drugs and other moral decay. Not so much fear of being a victim of violent crime. That the values of the neighborhood are such that this scummy behavior is accepted as a part of life.
In some supposedly "sheltered" suburb like Orland Park, if you told someone about an armed robbery, they'd act shocked. That someone would actually point a gun at you and demand whatever little money you had in your pocket at the threat of your life. Their mouth would be gaping open, saying stuff like "He did what?", "That's awful!". Versus in a neighborhood or suburb where this kind of stuff happens weekly or daily, where people would shrug and say it's important not to walk alone after dark.
These kind of violent crimes ARE shocking to me! And I guess I feel more comfortable living amongst people who feel the same way. And would certainly prefer my kids growing up in a place with such neighborhood values, where these types of behavior are shocking and appalling.
This is what I interpret promis to mean as to "neighborhood values and ethics". And it's important to me too. I don't think he's talking about church attendance, what goes on inside people's bedrooms or any other socially conservative agenda like that.
Thats exactly what I meant before my quote was picked apart and then referred to me a KKK member. I am Italian and KKK would not like me either. I just believe that violent crime should not be shrugged off and the concerned residents of a neighborhood is who makes up the neighborhoods ethics. And yes, I have fought for my neighborhood more than once and I feel an obligation to protect it from ghetto trash. More people should act the same way, and these violent crimes would not persist- Oh and I do not make gang bangers feel at home. Is that racist also? Liberals many times will just shrug their shoulders and blame themselved when they hear of ghetto trash commiting violent crimes. The white guilt kicks in - I owe nothing to anyone and truly believe that every race in this country by 2009 has caught some major breaks in life. It is time for everyone to be responsible for his/her own actions.
Guess I’m ultra-conservative too! Wow, never knew that. Had a gun stuck to my head once – while delivering pizzas in DeKalb. Don’t want that ever repeated again! Guess Meatpuff missed my post about calling the police every time we see something even slightly out of whack. Oh well. Believe me, no one, around where I live at least, accepts scummy behavior as part of life. Urban-dwellers tend to be more diligent about dealing with scummy behavior than their suburban counterparts, because there's no false sense of security.
Obviously, people who live in low crime rate areas want to feel good about how safe they are, so they tend to be the worst about making sweeping assumptions from crime stats. In reality, they're probably not much safer than those in more "deadly" areas. This is my 11th year in Oak Park/Berwyn. 5 in Oak Park and going on 6 now in Berwyn. Suffered from a crime ONE TIME. Five years ago, some punks tagged our (alley) garage door. That’s it. No assaults, no batteries, no garage break ins, no home invasions, no attempted home invasions, no pit bull attacks, nothing. I’m not a special case either. Plenty of friends all over Berwyn, Oak Park and Forest Park, and they’ve nothing to report either. It's just not that unsafe. Bottom line.
Can I get the description of who robbed you at gunpoint in Dekalb?
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Whatever happened to the American idea that "I don't have to agree with what you say but I will defend with my death your right to say it???" I despise name-calling.
