Maywood, Illinois (Chicago, Aurora, Elgin: to live in, fence, stats)

[ajolotl]

Total agreement on this point.

Originally Posted by promis1

Thats exactly what I meant before my quote was picked apart and then referred to me a KKK member. I am Italian and KKK would not like me either. I just believe that violent crime should not be shrugged off and the concerned residents of a neighborhood is who makes up the neighborhoods ethics. And yes, I have fought for my neighborhood more than once and I feel an obligation to protect it from ghetto trash. More people should act the same way, and these violent crimes would not persist- Oh and I do not make gang bangers feel at home. Is that racist also? Liberals many times will just shrug their shoulders and blame themselved when they hear of ghetto trash commiting violent crimes. The white guilt kicks in - I owe nothing to anyone and truly believe that every race in this country by 2009 has caught some major breaks in life. It is time for everyone to be responsible for his/her own actions.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by promis1

Oh and I do not make gang bangers feel at home. Is that racist also? Liberals many times will just shrug their shoulders and blame themselved when they hear of ghetto trash commiting violent crimes. The white guilt kicks in - I owe nothing to anyone and truly believe that every race in this country by 2009 has caught some major breaks in life. It is time for everyone to be responsible for his/her own actions.

Nope, it's not racist at all. There are ultra-left liberals who are white and do think this way... And unfortunately there seem to be many in the poor urban black community who think this way... But reasonable people on the right and left know that gang-bangers on the corner are a bad thing. I've personally been called a racist for wanting stronger enforcement of the anti-loitering laws in Uptown, and I've been called a racist for being involved in CAPS. Apparently in Uptown you are a racist if you are concerned about crime. There are a lot of people making excuses for some pretty deplorable behavior out there, and this type of thinking really needs to end.

Of course, a bunch of black people hanging out on the corner wearing baggy clothes does not necessarily constitute a group of "gang bangers"... If you've been to a public school in the last fifteen years, you'll know that this is just the way that kids dress in the city.

[aragx6]

I want to be very clear here. I did not in any way shape or form intend to suggest you have any affiliation with the KKK.

What I did say is that this completely insular feeling that folks get where they think they have every right to keep out any one "different" by any means necessary can, and has in the past (hence the KKK reference), caause some VERY bad things to happen.

You see this exact same thing with some of the anti-gentrifcation types too. It's not just white people who perpetrate this kind of bs.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Mister Mappy

...I work near Cicero & Roscoe in Portage Park, and it has definitely become much more Hispanic, yet it doesn't seem too horribly unsafe, and the neighborhood is well kept.

The area around Cicero and Roscoe in Portage Park,Cragin,Kelvin Park,and Kilbourn Park is getting more crime ridden EVERY year.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

The area around Cicero and Roscoe in Portage Park,Cragin,Kelvin Park,and Kilbourn Park is getting more crime ridden EVERY year.

Numbers? I think it's actually improved in Portage Park in the last then years. According to a friend of mine who grew up in Portage Park, there was a strong feeling that Portage Park was going down the tubes in the 1990s, but I don't think many people feel that way any more. Apparently there was a well-publicized shooting at the park during a softball game, and it freaked everyone out. More than a decade later, this would still be a shocking occurence in Portage Park. I don't think it's any less safe now than it was then.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Numbers? I think it's actually improved in Portage Park in the last then years. According to a friend of mine who grew up in Portage Park, there was a strong feeling that Portage Park was going down the tubes in the 1990s...

And RIGHT HERE (in myself) you have someone that grew up most of his childhood in Portage Park that disagrees STRONGLY with your friend.

The area the OP is talking about is in the south end of Portage Park at best. As I do not know the hundred and street this poster works at I can't show the stats for the immediate area.

There is no doubt Cragin (which borders the southern end of Portage Park is going to crap.) It is not as though you can cross into southern Portage Park and all the problems of Cragin will disappear. They spill over BIG TIME.

So I have to pull up numbers every time? What about the trolls that make ridiculous comments? Why are they not required to post stats to prove their claims? They are allowed to ramble on and on on sheer opinion ALONE. The burden of proof is up to me to research and post? That is ludicrous. I do not have enough time in the day or night to research and post internet facts to challenge all of the misinformed people and trolls that are in the Chicago forum alone let alone the burb and state forums.

Like I am getting paid to spend my time to disprove the ignorant and inexperienced (in most cases often then not transplants) that think they know it all about Chicago (not directed towards you or anyone in particular.)

[mod cut]

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

So I have to pull up numbers every time? What about the trolls that make ridiculous comments? Why are they not required to post stats to prove their claims? They are allowed to ramble on and on on sheer opinion ALONE.

I don't think I've ever asked you to post stats before. Easy there, tiger. This is a web site dedicated to "city data".

I stand by my comment that things are not getting significantly worse in Portage Park at this time. Some would say they are getting better.

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

And RIGHT HERE (in myself) you have someone that grew up most of his childhood in Portage Park that disagrees STRONGLY with your friend.

The area the OP is talking about is in the south end of Portage Park at best. As I do not know the hundred and street this poster works at I can't show the stats for the immediate area.

There is no doubt Cragin (which borders the southern end of Portage Park is going to crap.) It is not as though you can cross into southern Portage Park and all the problems of Cragin will disappear. They spill over BIG TIME.

So I have to pull up numbers every time? What about the trolls that make ridiculous comments? Why are they not required to post stats to prove their claims? They are allowed to ramble on and on on sheer opinion ALONE. The burden of proof is up to me to research and post? That is ludicrous. I do not have enough time in the day or night to research and post internet facts to challenge all of the misinformed people and trolls that are in the Chicago forum alone let alone the burb and state forums.

Like I am getting paid to spend my time to disprove the ignorant and inexperienced (in most cases often then not transplants) that think they know it all about Chicago (not directed towards you or anyone in particular.)

Wow just wow. These forums are going down the tubes like a turd down a toilet.

With very few exceptions, I refuse to post statistics (although I always find them interesting reading when others generously do so.) Maybe it's because my oldest friend is a statistician. She lives in D.C. and has regaled me with stories about how stats are used and abused to promote specific agendas.

Most of my opinions about city/suburban living are purely anecdotal. This or that happened to me or my friends or family members. For those of us who grew up in the city (and I mean the city proper and NOT a suburb, however close by) and are over 45, I would be very surprised if the majority would NOT say their their former communities have declined. If an area LOOKS bad; i.e. trash, graffitti, junk cars, broken sidewalks (an entire city block is without sidewalk east of Austin on Fullerton) to us it IS bad. Speaking for myself, I can't help it. I have memories of when the area was much nicer. It has nothing to do with the color of the people currently living there---it has to do with simple deterioration.

And economics cannot be to blame. I grew up in ethnic working class enclaves. They were spotless. There were flowers everywhere. There wasn't any broken glass or trash littering the streets. No one menaced anybody on the street.

I'm glad to hear Portage Park is on the upswing, but to me it looks terrible. And the Portage Theatre is a disgrace. My friends at the Silent Film Society ended up there because the owners of the current Gateway Theatre, which is now the Polish Cultural Center, didn't want to rent to them any more. I've gone to the Silent Summer Film Festival for two years but won't go anymore because it bothers me too much to see how Portage Park has declined. 6 Corners used to be a shopping destination. It is definately worse for wear. To see boarded up store windows covered in advertising bills doesn't do a thing for me. And my point was that this was NOT part of the typical urban experience.

[Lookout Kid]

Neighborhood retail is on the decline throughout the city, except for a few choice pedestrian streets. It's really too bad, but probably has more to do with macro-economic conditions and the rise of big box than neighborhood decline. There are many neighborhoods that are middle class and quite well-gentrified that have dismal street-level retail. For instance, drive Belmont west from Lake View to the Western overpass. The storefronts are there, but they are barren--until you get within an easy walking distance of the Red Line.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Neighborhood retail is on the decline throughout the city, except for a few choice pedestrian streets. It's really too bad, but probably has more to do with macro-economic conditions and the rise of big box than neighborhood decline. There are many neighborhoods that are middle class and quite well-gentrified that have dismal street-level retail. For instance, drive Belmont west from Lake View to the Western overpass. The storefronts are there, but they are barren--until you get within an easy walking distance of the Red Line.

True. Its hard/impossible to fight macro-economic trends. I suppose we could demolish acres of the old, arguably obsolete urban fabric and put up shiny big box stores with large parking lots. To a limited extent we have done this in the city (If you can't beat'em, join'em.)