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I think Orland Park, Olympia Fields, and Schaumburg are the epitome of "middle class suburbs". Though Orland does have some upper class sections to it, to be sure.
Flossmoor is dropping into the middle class. It used to be more exclusive.
Elmhurst, Highland Park, Deerfield, and Oak Brook are definitely upper-middle to upper class suburbs, though I'm sure most of the people living there think they're just "middle class". Everyone thinks they are middle class, and I think that's the heart of this argument we're having here.
Really? I honestly thought Orland Park was more lower-middle to middle class. To me, upper middle class and beyond are doctors, lawyers, stock brokers, etc. I have experienced Orland Park and many of the more well-kept south/sw burbs (Tinley, Mokena, New Lenox, Frankfort) are trades people, small business owners, nurses, radiology techs, teachers, realtors, etc.
You're right! I don't know why I thought Orland Park was a rich area. Maybe because all of the retail and nice resturants out there and the higher housing stock. But you're right though.
And to "Lookout Kid"
Last time I checked Flossmoor was still pretty rich. Flossmoor ain't going nowhere. It's just gaining more blacks that's all.
Don't you mean principles? I wasn't aware that teachers (even with 25 years of experience) can make that much per year. Also, I did say over 300,000K. Lets be honest here!! How many people with six figure incomes you think are gonna move in a regular middle class neighborhood? If they had that kind of money and didn't mind spending it, they would prefer moving to Naperville, Orland Park, Olympia Fields, Flossmoor, Lincoln Park, Evanston, Oak Park, Beverly, Hyde Park, Elmhurst, Schaumburg, Highland Park, Deerfield, Oak Brook, etc. All these areas are considered by many to be upper-middle class to upper class.
Here is a website that show you what the High School teachers, principles etc. make in each district in Illinois. This H.S. district is 205 Thornton Township( Dolton, Harvey, and South Holland). Some of the teachers in here pass the $100,000 mark and been there 30 years or less.
Here is a website that show you what the High School teachers, principles etc. make in each district in Illinois. This H.S. district is 205 Thornton Township( Dolton, Harvey, and South Holland). Some of the teachers in here pass the $100,000 mark and been there 30 years or less.
So why wouln't two teachers making 100K be upper middle-class? Teachers only work 9 months out of the year, most of them on the weekdays, they get every holiday under the sun off with full pay as well as Christmas and spring break and still get an extra 3 months out of the year to relax (not to mention sick and vacation days). During the summer they can choose not to do $h!tt and still get their teacher's salary and can work a second job. Plus, they can make some extra money coaching. Then, their student loans can be forgiven over certain amount of time teacher and they get all kinds of tax bonuses, deals on their car note, insurance, mortgage and other cash incentives. And it's d@nm near impossible to get fired!! And theirs two teachers in the household making 100K! Shooot!! I might as well call them the Cosby's.
Most people who make 100k on their jobs work 12 months and don't even have half of those luxuries. Therefore, I'm still gonna disagree with Humboldt1.
I think the teacher example was supposed to be a reductio ad absurdum argument.
Anyhow, there is no correct answer. I would just point out that 200K/year is nothing if you are a family in the city (it is different if you are in a small town or even modest suburb). 200K/year becomes about 10k/month after state taxes, federal taxes, FICA, medicare, etc. Real estate is expensive, so 3K for mortgage + taxes is typical even for a modest townhouse. If you have two kids in private school, that can easily be another 3K per month. A couple of car payments, the heat, electricity, water, car insurance, maintenance, medical, etc etc and dozen other regular expenses that one incurs with two kids (the list is endless), and you're pretty broke pretty quickly. Factor in the startup costs of home ownership (down payment, furniture, etc.) and it's easy to see how one wouldn't feel like the cosbys.
Not saying everyone needs the expensive private school, but a lot of people in the city are in that situation. Thus, a salary in the 200-300K range is very different than it would be in a suburb or small town. I was talking specifically about city living. I think 200K would be very nice in a town in downstate Illinois.
I think Orland Park, Olympia Fields, and Schaumburg are the epitome of "middle class suburbs". Though Orland does have some upper class sections to it, to be sure.
Flossmoor is dropping into the middle class. It used to be more exclusive.
Elmhurst, Highland Park, Deerfield, and Oak Brook are definitely upper-middle to upper class suburbs, though I'm sure most of the people living there think they're just "middle class". Everyone thinks they are middle class, and I think that's the heart of this argument we're having here.
if those suburbs are upper middle class, there must not be any upper class suburbs anywhere in the country.
I think the teacher example was supposed to be a reductio ad absurdum argument.
Anyhow, there is no correct answer. I would just point out that 200K/year is nothing if you are a family in the city (it is different if you are in a small town or even modest suburb). 200K/year becomes about 10k/month after state taxes, federal taxes, FICA, medicare, etc. Real estate is expensive, so 3K for mortgage + taxes is typical even for a modest townhouse. If you have two kids in private school, that can easily be another 3K per month. A couple of car payments, the heat, electricity, water, car insurance, maintenance, medical, etc etc and dozen other regular expenses that one incurs with two kids (the list is endless), and you're pretty broke pretty quickly. Factor in the startup costs of home ownership (down payment, furniture, etc.) and it's easy to see how one wouldn't feel like the cosbys.
Not saying everyone needs the expensive private school, but a lot of people in the city are in that situation. Thus, a salary in the 200-300K range is very different than it would be in a suburb or small town. I was talking specifically about city living. I think 200K would be very nice in a town in downstate Illinois.
I agree for the most part, but the median household income in the city is 46K (way below the states average). People making around this amount have the similar expenses to six-figure income people and many send their kids to private school as well. And 200K is well above the median and would still be considered upper middle class even for Chicago Standards. Chicago can be expensive, but outside of Downtown and a few neighborhoods, it's by far not the most expensive city. If we were talking about California (SF and LA), NYC, DC, Toronto, Vancouver, Honolulu, Boston with 200K then thats another story.
I grew up in South Holland, I moved there when I was 2 in 1967 and remained until I went to college in 1983. At the time it was a predominantely white population. As I got older it changed, but for the most part it was families who shared the same values and we had great neighbors for the most part still are. People took pride in their homes and still do to this day. I still have family there and I still think it is a nice village. The crime rate has gone up over the last few years, it has in Barrington Hills, Gurnee, Orland Park etc. The values that South Holland was founded on have remained and thus the village has faired much better than every other town in the area with maybe the exception of Homewood. When I was a kid I could remember Harvey being a place to go shopping (Dixie Square Mall), Calumet City (River Oaks, Toys R. US). Dolton was where we went swimming at the Izak Walton league. I don't know what the original posters situation is, as one poster mentioned, you are not going to find apartments to rent there, but if looking for a house I would stay in the southeast area of South Holland. South of 159th and east of School St.or Cottage Grove. To add to the conversation I am a cop and never wanted to become one in South Holland as a younger person I thought it was too slow. Now that I am older I wished I had. I listen to there department at night on a scanner when I am working for the larger city I work for and they still seem pretty quiet compared to Harvey (which I listen to) Dolton (on the same fequency as SH and Riverdale). Incidentally to Hegewisch is still a good area, it like other places has had an increase in crime, but again where hasn't there been...Im there all the time.
In a nutshell, suburbs with higher property taxes attract the most middle class or affluent residents who can afford to pay them. Because, higher property taxes also keeps most of the section 8 renters out and discourages landlords with section 8 rentals in mind from buying up much of the housing stock. Here is a list of the southern burbs based on highest to lowest in property taxes. With few anomalies the burbs with the higher median property taxes are also more affluent than the towns with the lower median property taxes. The demand for section 8 housing is currently outpacing the demand by middle class families looking for homes. Only areas with higher than usual property taxes will stave off class decline and not see an increase in poverty rates in there suburb.
Flossmoor $6,989.93
Olympia Fields $6,660.89
Monee $5,392.22
Beecher $5,056.20
Crete $4,748.50
University Park $4,247.93
Country Club Hills $4,209.47
Matteson $4,178.06
Homewood $3,991.23
Lynwood $3,818.46 South Holland $3,782.20
Richton Park $3,673.32
Park Forest $3,665.37
Peotone $3,611.80
Evergreen Park $3,462.07
Glenwood $3,379.65
Dolton $3,290.32
Oak Lawn $3,241.11
East Hazel Crest $3,180.62
Lansing $3,096.03
Hazel Crest $2,924.91
Blue Island $2,912.82
Calumet City $2,876.76
Riverdale $2,862.52
Midlothian $2,768.80
Thornton $2,753.12
Chicago Heights $2,661.65
Burnham $2,606.13
Calumet Park $2,567.24
Merrionette Park $2,317.70
Posen $2,277.29
Sauk Village $2,252.18
Harvey $2,079.88
Crestwood $2,042.46
Hometown $2,040.16
South Chicago Heights $2,027.20
Markham $1,905.69
Steger $1,847.20
Ford Heights $1,674.94
Phoenix $1,374.13
Dixmoor $1,241.74
Robbins $805.67
Last edited by allen2323; 01-01-2011 at 07:53 PM..
In a nutshell, suburbs with higher property taxes attract the most middle class or affluent residents who can afford to pay them. Because, higher property taxes also keeps most of the section 8 renters out and discourages landlords with section 8 rentals in mind from buying up much of the housing stock. Here is a list of the southern burbs based on highest to lowest in property taxes. With few anomalies the burbs with the higher median property taxes are also more affluent than the towns with the lower median property taxes. The demand for section 8 housing is currently outpacing the demand by middle class families looking for homes. Only areas with higher than usual property taxes will stave off class decline and not see an increase in poverty rates in there suburb.
Flossmoor $6,989.93
Olympia Fields $6,660.89
Monee $5,392.22
Beecher $5,056.20
Crete $4,748.50
University Park $4,247.93
Country Club Hills $4,209.47
Matteson $4,178.06
Homewood $3,991.23
Lynwood $3,818.46 South Holland $3,782.20
Richton Park $3,673.32
Park Forest $3,665.37
Peotone $3,611.80
Evergreen Park $3,462.07
Glenwood $3,379.65
Dolton $3,290.32
Oak Lawn $3,241.11
East Hazel Crest $3,180.62
Lansing $3,096.03
Hazel Crest $2,924.91
Blue Island $2,912.82
Calumet City $2,876.76
Riverdale $2,862.52
Midlothian $2,768.80
Thornton $2,753.12
Chicago Heights $2,661.65
Burnham $2,606.13
Calumet Park $2,567.24
Merrionette Park $2,317.70
Posen $2,277.29
Sauk Village $2,252.18
Harvey $2,079.88
Crestwood $2,042.46
Hometown $2,040.16
South Chicago Heights $2,027.20
Markham $1,905.69
Steger $1,847.20
Ford Heights $1,674.94
Phoenix $1,374.13
Dixmoor $1,241.74
Robbins $805.67
I don't understand how Monee and Crete are that high on the list, especially with all the trailers around here. There are some huuuuge houses, for sure. And most of them aren't even inside the village limits.
The extremely wealthy Green Gardens Township is west of I-57 and I don't really consider it Monee. But then again, I'm unincorporated and some might say the same about where I will still be living for another few weeks.
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I wasn't aware that teachers (even with 25 years of experience) can make that much per year. Also, I did say over 300,000K. Lets be honest here!! How many people with six figure incomes you think are gonna move in a regular middle class neighborhood? If they had that kind of money and didn't mind spending it, they would prefer moving to Naperville, Orland Park, Olympia Fields, Flossmoor, Lincoln Park, Evanston, Oak Park, Beverly, Hyde Park, Elmhurst, Schaumburg, Highland Park, Deerfield, Oak Brook, etc. All these areas are considered by many to be upper-middle class to upper class.
