Morgan park? (Chicago, Lincoln: crime, home, purchase)

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

^ Insert some slashes or something please! ^

done. thanks.

[MannheimMadman]

I agree with this assessment. I would begin to ask, how or why is it narrow-minded to look at those atrocious scores and say, "F this."

Jasmine, I don't think you are looking at this thread objectively. I also believe you are a bit defensive because your friend went to this school. Maybe the IB program there is adequate; however, everything else may not be.

Perhaps your friend's parents were active in her education and were able to be there for her. There are so many variables to consider, you know?

Originally Posted by BRU67

I don't think that's what the thread says. MP got a 39% meets or exceeds on the last ISAT. That's below the State average. There is a large group who are going to look at this and find it unacceptable without a further thought. Is this narrow minded? Maybe, but that's not the point. It's reality. It's what people do. It's what a lot of people do.

Others will consider that less important than cheaper homes and acceptable safety levels at the school and in the community. Unfortunately, those people generally do not put as high a priority on the education itself, which is why the school's overall scores will remain mediocre. It's not that they're bad people, they just don't view education with the same level of intensity that other groups do.

And at the fringes are the extremes, like the doctor and lawyer couple who send their kid to the low scoring public school because they want her exposed to diversity and she ends up graduating Valedictorian at Harvard and hired by the State Department to head a project to create lasting world peace. But those are the exception rather than the rule, and solely focusing on those will ignore the real issues, and won't bring us closer to any solutions.

[Chicagoland60426]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I don't think that's what the thread says. MP got a 39% meets or exceeds on the last ISAT. That's below the State average. There is a large group who are going to look at this and find it unacceptable without a further thought. Is this narrow minded? Maybe, but that's not the point. It's reality. It's what people do. It's what a lot of people do.

Others will consider that less important than cheaper homes and acceptable safety levels at the school and in the community. Unfortunately, those people generally do not put as high a priority on the education itself, which is why the school's overall scores will remain mediocre. It's not that they're bad people, they just don't view education with the same level of intensity that other groups do.

And at the fringes are the extremes, like the doctor and lawyer couple who send their kid to the low scoring public school because they want her exposed to diversity and she ends up graduating Valedictorian at Harvard and hired by the State Department to head a project to create lasting world peace. But those are the exception rather than the rule, and solely focusing on those will ignore the real issues, and won't bring us closer to any solutions.

53% meets or exceeds for the PSAE in 2009.
http://iirc.niu.edu/School.aspx?scho...50162990250031

[Chicagoland60426]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

Unless your friend lives in cave I'm sure she knows this already. How else could she explain why almost no whites go there (in a very white neighborhood)? Doesn't this strike you as a bit odd? I'm sure it has occurred to her at least once ... it is because they think the school sucks and that they think you can't get a good education.

Now, she might disagree, and I suppose it is possible that all of these white people and their misguided opinions are motivated by complete ignorance or racism, but to act like your friend would be shocked to hear it is a bit of a stretch.

You have a point there. H-F High School is experiencing white flight, despite that it has a good rep in the south suburbs. Once majority white 10 years ago, now close to 60% black and becoming less diverse each year.

[JasmineFlower]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

Do you think you speak to a different group, or that they won't say these things in front of you for some reason?

Why would they speak differently in front of me? I could care less about what they say about the school, I don't live in Beverly, not from Chicago originally, I truly have no vested interest one way or another. I've gotten unsolicited comments about the school.

Originally Posted by MannheimMadman

Jasmine, I don't think you are looking at this thread objectively. I also believe you are a bit defensive because your friend went to this school. Maybe the IB program there is adequate; however, everything else may not be.

I'm not defensive, I'm shocked. Did you catch that someone said attending MPHS wouldn't be as bad as suicide? If you don't think that's an extreme statement, to each his own. I don't stare at test scores, I don't care to. I've gotten unsolicited comments about MPHS and I'm telling you, its different than what is projected in this thread and that's from blacks and whites. Looking at statistics is fine, but its not always the entire story. Regardless of what those numbers say, its not what I've been told directly by multiple people. And I don't have one friend who went to MPHS, I know more than 10 people who went there. I'm not shaped by one person's isolated experience at the school. And if the IB program is good, would you know it from this thread had I not mentioned it? It seemed like someone needed to point out going to this school isn't the end of the world, and trust me, whether you see it or not, this thread was definitely suggesting that it was.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by MannheimMadman

I agree with this assessment. I would begin to ask, how or why is it narrow-minded to look at those atrocious scores and say, "F this."

Just looking at standardized test scores without anything else and then selling a house -- which will cost one on average about 30k just in transaction and moving costs -- is narrow minded, or maybe more correctly foolish. I don't disagree with the idea that you can get a good education at a school like MP. It's just in how the parents approach it. Too many parents can't see past the scores, and must have that top score. And the absence of good students doesn't help scores any. And around and around we go.

[ajolotl]

Let's see, you don't live in Beverly and aren't from Chicago. I live and Beverly and have lived on the south side for over 25 years (as an adult). We both hear lots of talk about MPHS. You say it is overwhelmingly positive regardless of the race of the person speaking. I say that blacks have generally a good impression of it while the vast majority of whites roll their eyes and say things like "you just can't go there", "it's not an option", "no one goes there", "it's hell on earth", etc. (I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with these opinions -- frankly I don't really know but suspect it isn't great). I also know that whites won't say this in certain circumstances so that they don't appear racist or insensitive. I say the best measure is to look at the damn numbers -- it is the community high school and almost no one white will go there. Enough said as far as I'm concerned. Locally this is a very well known problem that has received lots of attention. Can't believe that this would come as a shock to anyone.

Originally Posted by JasmineFlower

Why would they speak differently in front of me? I could care less about what they say about the school, I don't live in Beverly, not from Chicago originally, I truly have no vested interest one way or another. I've gotten unsolicited comments about the school.

[Runuova]

You guys are really getting deep here! I just took another drive around that address, and liked what I saw. Morgan Park has the vintage home stock that I like. I totally forgot about how close the Marshfield Plaza was to the area, as well as the police station. My fiancee was a bit hesitant, but after going over some of the benefits of the area, I think we can add it to our list of Chicago area neighborhoods(as long as we stay west of Church street). The schools are a factor, and I will do my proper research. Are there any future plans for the area/plaza? Do you think rehabbing a vintage home on or near MPHS is a good investment? Is the expressway a "good from bad" divider line?

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by Runuova

You guys are really getting deep here! I just took another drive around that address, and liked what I saw. Morgan Park has the vintage home stock that I like. I totally forgot about how close the Marshfield Plaza was to the area, as well as the police station. My fiancee was a bit hesitant, but after going over some of the benefits of the area, I think we can add it to our list of Chicago area neighborhoods(as long as we stay west of Church street). The schools are a factor, and I will do my proper research. Are there any future plans for the area/plaza? Do you think rehabbing a vintage home on or near MPHS is a good investment? Is the expressway a "good from bad" divider line?

I've grown to like Marshfield Plaza. Lots of useful stuff over there.

What's a good investment is anyone's guess as far as I'm concerned. I have a friend who bought in Kenwood in the mid-80s for 200K or so. Everyone told him that he was nuts and that he should buy in an established area with good schools, low crime, etc -- that it would be a much better investment. His home was recently appraised for over 2M. Did pretty damn well by ignoring all of the conventional wisdom. I think Beverly and parts of MP have a bright future in the new socio-economic order but there are never any guarantees. Buy something that you can afford some place you would like to live.

The highway is one dividing line. Not that it's great to the west and bad to the east, just that it's one level suckier to the east -- that's where most of the shootings occur and it is more like Roseland than what you think of as MP. West is much tamer but not necessarily great, depends on exactly where.

[Runuova]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

I've grown to like Marshfield Plaza. Lots of useful stuff over there.

What's a good investment is anyone's guess as far as I'm concerned. I have a friend who bought in Kenwood in the mid-80s for 200K or so. Everyone told him that he was nuts and that he should buy in an established area with good schools, low crime, etc -- that it would be a much better investment. His home was recently appraised for over 2M. Did pretty damn well by ignoring all of the conventional wisdom. I think Beverly and parts of MP have a bright future in the new socio-economic order but there are never any guarantees. Buy something that you can afford some place you would like to live.

The highway is one dividing line. Not that it's great to the west and bad to the east, just that it's one level suckier to the east -- that's where most of the shootings occur and it is more like Roseland than what you think of as MP. West is much tamer but not necessarily great, depends on exactly where.

Very useful info! I do like that Plaza as well. I love vintage homes, so it made an impression on me.