Is Chicago Underpopulated? (Lincoln, Manhattan, Wyoming: landlord, trains, rich)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by rubbersoul89

exactly.

the whole "oh, you're just going to blame the victim" narrative is so tired and cliche.

Except that I have been blamed for being a victim of crime, right here in the City-Data forums. Explaining that one needs to take precautions is different from saying, after the fact, "it was your fault."

[marothisu]

It is different and most victims of crimes aren't to blame, but sometimes yes, there could have been precautions taken to try and prevent it from happening. While it's not great, it's not a perfect world and it's a fact of some more urban cities for sure.

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by Chicago76

4 million seems like a pretty decent "perfect storm" estimate to me.

If the housing unit vacancy was pretty much ideal (5%), we'd add another 155,000 people @ 2 people/unit. If 40% of all underutilized/vacant land was residential, and we assume 4 people per normal sized Chicago lot, that's 1.4 million. Adding the two together and you get 4.25 million, which is ridiculously optimistic.

More realistically (but still optimistic)...

Why is the prospect of a huge population optimistic? Are you a tax collector? Do you charge by the hour for driving on the Kennedy or the Dan Ryan? Just sayin'.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by marothisu

It is different and most victims of crimes aren't to blame, but sometimes yes, there could have been precautions taken to try and prevent it from happening. While it's not great, it's not a perfect world and it's a fact of some more urban cities for sure.

But I think you (and others) are missing the broader point. There are only so many precautions you can take, so many changes to your "normal" routine, so many parts of town you can avoid, so many risks to avoid that shouldn't even be risks in a civilized society, and so much crap happening around you and to you (which some will even blame you for) before you realize that you're living among and participating in a deeply dysfunctional environment.

You can either concede to that dysfunction or you can say "enough" and GTFO so that you're not surrounded by dysfunction any more. Or you can avoid moving into an atmosphere of deep dysfunction in the first place. Too many people here simply refuse to concede how much this affects the city's ability to attract and retain a stable and growing population. I've tried to hold on and make a difference here and be one more tiny little stabilizing force, but the indifference and even downright hostility I've experienced from others because I'm not willing to suck it up indefinitely combined with the personal and familial sacrifices it takes to stay here have pushed me to my limits. And trust me when I say I'm not the only one who feels this way. There have been countless people before me who swore they'd never leave until they too reached their limits. And if things don't change, there will be countless people after me.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

Why is the prospect of a huge population optimistic? Are you a tax collector? Do you charge by the hour for driving on the Kennedy or the Dan Ryan? Just sayin'.

or, in other words, to completely applaud your sanity: we're all overpopulated. and it's killing us.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Drover

But I think you (and others) are missing the broader point. There are only so many precautions you can take, so many changes to your "normal" routine, so many parts of town you can avoid, so many risks to avoid that shouldn't even be risks in a civilized society, and so much crap happening around you and to you (which some will even blame you for) before you realize that you're living among and participating in a deeply dysfunctional environment.

You can either concede to that dysfunction or you can say "enough" and GTFO so that you're not surrounded by dysfunction any more. Or you can avoid moving into an atmosphere of deep dysfunction in the first place. Too many people here simply refuse to concede how much this affects the city's ability to attract and retain a stable and growing population. I've tried to hold on and make a difference here and be one more tiny little stabilizing force, but the indifference and even downright hostility I've experienced from others because I'm not willing to suck it up indefinitely combined with the personal and familial sacrifices it takes to stay here have pushed me to my limits. And trust me when I say I'm not the only one who feels this way. There have been countless people before me who swore they'd never leave until they too reached their limits. And if things don't change, there will be countless people after me.

Wow, if I didn't know better I'd say this sounds like the same argument I've heard from clients, neighbors, and my own voice...

The fact is that it often makes more sense to continue to work in the Loop and even enjoy most of the cultural and entertainment offerings of the parts of Chicago that are mostly well policed and accessible while choosing to live in a nearby train accessible town that is so much safer that you literally pinch yourself that it is only 20 some minutes away via Metra...

Of course beyond that "personal solution" I completely agree that the "decision makers" of firms that may consider building up a business vs relocating to another area have t deal with the news stories of horrific random violence (which generally are not completely accurate...) and they now that hurts their ability to have the sorts of long term growth that they would in areas with no such negatives.

The decision makers also are influenced by both their own desire to have good schools for their kids / the kids of their employees AND a well educated workforce that makes it easier to select quality employees.

Those decision makers similarly must take stock of the likelihood that inability to make progress in dealing with financially irresponsible pension mismanagement will lead to higher taxes and reduced government services.

Go ahead happy-go-lucky young partiers, eventually the corrupt actions of the political hacks that you ignore will cause the good times to come to a screeching halt...

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

Why is the prospect of a huge population optimistic? Are you a tax collector? Do you charge by the hour for driving on the Kennedy or the Dan Ryan? Just sayin'.

Well its optimistic because Chicago is a mature city that is no longer a boom town, I'd expect moderate growth at best unless the rest of the country actually does run out of water or something.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by Drover

But I think you (and others) are missing the broader point. There are only so many precautions you can take, so many changes to your "normal" routine, so many parts of town you can avoid, so many risks to avoid that shouldn't even be risks in a civilized society, and so much crap happening around you and to you (which some will even blame you for) before you realize that you're living among and participating in a deeply dysfunctional environment.

You can either concede to that dysfunction or you can say "enough" and GTFO so that you're not surrounded by dysfunction any more. Or you can avoid moving into an atmosphere of deep dysfunction in the first place. Too many people here simply refuse to concede how much this affects the city's ability to attract and retain a stable and growing population. I've tried to hold on and make a difference here and be one more tiny little stabilizing force, but the indifference and even downright hostility I've experienced from others because I'm not willing to suck it up indefinitely combined with the personal and familial sacrifices it takes to stay here have pushed me to my limits. And trust me when I say I'm not the only one who feels this way. There have been countless people before me who swore they'd never leave until they too reached their limits. And if things don't change, there will be countless people after me.

I've always been a big fan of the city but recently I've been thinking about moving tbh. I think I've become disillusioned at this point. There are just too many other great options out there for people with the means to stay put.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

Manhattan is 600,000 off its historic high,

700,000, actually, which is something like 30%. That's pretty significant. (It fell from 2.3 million in 1910 to 1.6 million in 2010.)

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

but remember the island is on 33sq miles. Chicago has LOTS of vacant lands to easily accommodate another 1 million without a problem.

My point wasn't that Manhattan is just like Chicago or that Chicago doesn't have physical space to add people. My point was that having more people doesn't necessarily make a place better. I like Chicago at its current size. If I want to live in a bigger city, I'll move to a bigger city, not hope that Chicago becomes bigger.

[chet everett]

I don't think anyone is suggesting Chicago is going to change it physical boundaries.

The parts of the North Side that have densities greater than San Fransico probably won't grow too much either.

The question mark is the areas that currently are low density and / or bleeding population -- if that does not turn around it makes things much harder...