Shootings in Chicago (credit, homes, place to live)

[ofcjim40]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

So what's the answer?

There isn't one. Sadly that's the answer. Unless they would be allowed to be eradicated like wild rabid roaming dogs it will continue. There will never be an end to gang violence unless society becomes so frustrated and basically vigilante justice ensues. There's no amount of money, jobs or touchy feely programs that can be implemented that will end this. Once you see what true gang bangers are all about and deal with them one on one, you will see they have zero interest in a peaceful and normal society. Sorry, but this is the sad truth. The ones on the fringe have some hope for reform, the true hardcore don't. They are urban terrorists that aren't much different than the Taliban or Alqaeda. Once society views them for what they are and takes off the kid gloves, they can be stopped. Is over 50 shot and 10 dead in a few days not war?

[Gemini1963]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

So what's the answer?

I certainly don't have an answer, but one suggestion is to take the 2 hours it requires to watch The Interrupters (The Interrupters | FRONTLINE | PBS), and then see what you are moved to do - such as donate to CeaseFire and help them in any way you can (CeaseFire - The Campaign to Stop the Shooting.) And try to retrain yourself to understand that these are YOUR brothers and sisters, people -- these "kids who suffer from stress disorders" living in the "war zone," where triggers tiny or huge can incite violence at any time (quotes and ideas from The Interrupters).

I'm relieved as much as anyone that I feel safe walking outside my front door, but that should not be the end of the story. We can't just say, "Well, *I* feel safe, so it's not my problem."

I know that watching one documentary and contributing money is a drop in a vast ocean, but if we gradually start to think of this as something that we MUST do something about - rather than just be glad it's far away from us - then maybe, GRADUALLY, change will come about in ways we can't foresee yet.

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by ofcjim40

There isn't one. Sadly that's the answer. Unless they would be allowed to be eradicated like wild rabid roaming dogs it will continue. There will never be an end to gang violence unless society becomes so frustrated and basically vigilante justice ensues. There's no amount of money, jobs or touchy feely programs that can be implemented that will end this. Once you see what true gang bangers are all about and deal with them one on one, you will see they have zero interest in a peaceful and normal society. Sorry, but this is the sad truth. The ones on the fringe have some hope for reform, the true hardcore don't. They are urban terrorists that aren't much different than the Taliban or Alqaeda. Once society views them for what they are and takes off the kid gloves, they can be stopped. Is over 50 shot and 10 dead in a few days not war?

Okay so let me ask you this question.
Decades ago the murder rates in the city were pushing 1k correct?
Current Homocides are someplace lets say between 400-500 correct?

It is bad it all happnend over one weekend but over the years there always seems to be one particular weekend where violence ensues and snares innocent victims.

Isn't the overall pattern of homicides actually decreasing?
You would think the homocides of decades past were happening in the same areas .

Just looking at the big picture 400-500 is way too many anyway.
However we do have a trend of decreasing homocides so in some twisted sense the war is being fought in the trenches and it must be working.

Not to enlighten the situation but the stats are the stats.

You obviously know what your talking about and that is just the way I am looking into this scenario.

My job seriously takes me into some of these enclaves and I personally have encountered once where i felt threatend.

Honestly the worst that has ever happenend to me was someone asking for loose change.

The West side seems different to me than the south side, not sure if others feel that way.

I seldom venture in the neighborhoods past dark and make a point of that .

There have been times where I pull up to a house and not gone in because it just did not feel right.

I have no choice unless i dont want to work.

[MrTryfe]

The state is corrupted, the city is one of the more corrupt cities in the world, and the police department is the type that deals with gang members by having gang leaders come together, and then telling them to control their underlings. Anyways, this is how it's always been in Chicago, and the show goes on. This year might be more violent than others, but the statistics will follow the same trend they've been following for years.

The solution? Who knows. Maybe people should attack the core of the problems by investing in their communities. Maybe the city should stop tearing down the projects, and just having gang members move from area to area. Or maybe the parents need to start putting their kids in line, and the schools need up their standards. Or maybe a good dose of vigilante might do the trick. Fight fire with fire. There are a lot of ideas, but who knows which one will work.

There are still a whole lot of fantastic areas in Chicago, just do your research, and you'll be fine.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by ofcjim40

There isn't one. Sadly that's the answer. Unless they would be allowed to be eradicated like wild rabid roaming dogs it will continue. There will never be an end to gang violence unless society becomes so frustrated and basically vigilante justice ensues. There's no amount of money, jobs or touchy feely programs that can be implemented that will end this. Once you see what true gang bangers are all about and deal with them one on one, you will see they have zero interest in a peaceful and normal society. Sorry, but this is the sad truth. The ones on the fringe have some hope for reform, the true hardcore don't. They are urban terrorists that aren't much different than the Taliban or Alqaeda. Once society views them for what they are and takes off the kid gloves, they can be stopped. Is over 50 shot and 10 dead in a few days not war?

what would happen if drugs were legalized? Won't happen unfortunately, but what do you think?

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by MrTryfe

The state is corrupted, the city is one of the more corrupt cities in the world, and the police department is the type that deals with gang members by having gang leaders come together, and then telling them to control their underlings. Anyways, this is how it's always been in Chicago, and the show goes on. This year might be more violent than others, but the statistics will follow the same trend they've been following for years.

The solution? Who knows. Maybe people should attack the core of the problems by investing in their communities. Maybe the city should stop tearing down the projects, and just having gang members move from area to area. Or maybe the parents need to start putting their kids in line, and the schools need up their standards. Or maybe a good dose of vigilante might do the trick. Fight fire with fire. There are a lot of ideas, but who knows which one will work.

There are still a whole lot of fantastic areas in Chicago, just do your research, and you'll be fine.

Never understood why the leaders of the PD sat down with the gang members and did not arrest them on the spot.



Seems that would have sent a bigger message out.

I suppose they would have arrested the savages if they could have , seems like the PD needs to treat the criminals as criminals and lock em up.

Some say that is not the answer.
I see it as it is a solution to the problem.
Others probably disagree but at least they would be off the streets.

Imagine if the person who killed the little girl would have been locked up, then the crime would not have been committed and the domino effect officerjim talks about would not have happened.
It would seem realistic the killer had a rap sheet anyway and was probably out of jail or inbetween jail time.
Seems like most of these gang members just dont have one bump into the law but a progression of petty crime turning into major crime acts against society.
Its a lot of variables and what ifs.

[linicx]

Gangs have had little fear of the law since the death penalty was taken off the table. Why should they? "Three hots and a cot for life" is always better than the needle. The bonus is the in-house gang they can join, or the outside gangs they can run from their cells.

There is no consistency in the legal system. A thug in NJ killed a cop, wounded another, and is guilty of six serial killings. He got 100 years + 20 years with no parole when he should have gotten the magic cocktail with his last meal. A MO pedophile molested his daughter for 10 years. He got 7 years and has to register as a sex offender like his father and brother did in Indiana. He should have gone to general population and never seen the light of day again. None should; and they should not have special treatment.. either. G.P. is the prison system equalizer. I say let it work.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by linicx

Gangs have had little fear of the law since the death penalty was taken off the table. Why should they? "Three hots and a cot for life" is always better than the needle. The bonus is the in-house gang they can join, or the outside gangs they from their cells.

There is no consistency in the legal system. A thug in NJ killed a cop, wounded another, and is guilty of six serial killings. He got 100 years + 20 years with no parole when he should have gotten the magic cocktail with his last meal. A MO pedophile molested his daughter for 10 years. He got 7 years and has to register as a sex offender like his father and brother did in Indiana. He should have gone to general population and never seen the light of day again. None should; and they should not have special treatment.. either. G.P. is the prison system equalizer. I say let it work.

seems reasonable

[linicx]

What we really need is Chicago is juvenile jail for 5,000 population like the one run by Sheriff Joe Arpello in Phoenix, Arizona. The kids go to school; they get a GED; they understand the value of hard work. Joe has the only certified prison High School in America. This guy does stuff no other Sheriff in North America does plus he has an enormous volunteer posse and he exports illegals. I think he processes 1000 or more accused thugs per day.

I don't think status quo Chicago has the stomach for change. or discipline.

Originally Posted by Vlajos

seems reasonable

[ofcjim40]

There so many areas for me to chime in with with others above have mentioned, but I will later when I have the time. But I'll touch on one point quickly:

Legalizing drugs would have little impact on ending gangs. Gangs are all about territory, violence and money. Dope just happens to be one of the trades they deal with. You take that off the table they'll fill that void with other revenue streams. Burglaries would literally go through the roof and robberies will increase. If anything the dope trade is helping to keep them "pacified". With dope you are basically selling to "consumers". If one product is removed from the market they'll find an alternative market. More cars will be stolen, more guns traded, more homes burglarized for money and electronics, more people robbed of their cellphones, money and credit cards. If anything the dope keeps them contained in their boundaries. With this gone they'll have to venture out further and hit more middle and upper class areas to get their proceeds. Gangs will never compromise their economics. If anything, if dope is legalized it'll be taxed and marked up outrageously like cigarettes are. Cigs have a HUGE black market and thefts. Dope gets legalized, stores that sell it will be burglarized to resell on the street for cheaper too. Dope doesn't equal gangs, gangs equals them making money anyway they can.