Why the loop? (Chicago, Manhattan, Cleveland: subway, best, mayor)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by chirack

From the look of New York history looks less like replacement and more like simply getting rid of duplicate routes. The problem with early mass transit is that it was operated via companies that competed. It is why The Lake street line and the Garfiled park line(repaced by the forrest park branch in the 50ies) are so near each other.

Getting rid of duplicate routes because everything went underground.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by madpaddy

The CTA, city, and state are all running massive deficits. Where exactly do you think the money would come from for a system to replace the L?

Maybe the same source of funds New York is using to build the 2nd Avenue subway. Why can't Chicago's mayor and hometown President get the funds for Chicago?

[Chicago60614]

Originally Posted by Drover

He doesn't care, he just wants to whine about Chicago.

Go look at the Cleveland forum if you want to see a show. Chicago this, Chicago that, doom and gloom, the city is in peril. I like Cleveland a lot actually, have friends from there, a vast majority of them are better than to sit and fret like that.

Forget about the fact our basement is filling with water and I haven't seen the cat in over a week - lets complain and talk about the fact the neighbors garage door is still broken. How embarassing for the neighbors!

[Chicago60614]

Originally Posted by Kamms

There is no money to do it because it's something that should have been done 50-60 years ago. I'm not ''whining'' about the L, just suggesting that it is antiquated and keeping Chicago in the 19th century in terms of mass transit.

Maybe because it works perfectly fine? The fact it's from the 19th century is the reason it's so much more celebrated than many other city's systems. There would be hell to pay if they every tried to tear it all down. It's something many people come to Chicago to see and ride.

[paytonc]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I know the elevated Loop is part of Chicago and all that. It's just that it is a 19th-century transportation mode and we are in the 21st-century. What other city is building an elevated transit system.

All of our transportation modes, except maybe maglev trains, are 19th century. Trains, bicycles, cars, trucks, etc.

New elevated lines are being built in many cities, from Vancouver's Evergreen Line to the Silver Line in Northern Virginia:


P3291358 by wfyurasko, on Flickr

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by paytonc

All of our transportation modes, except maybe maglev trains, are 19th century. Trains, bicycles, cars, trucks, etc.

New elevated lines are being built in many cities, from Vancouver's Evergreen Line to the Silver Line in Northern Virginia:


P3291358 by wfyurasko, on Flickr

Great, I Vancouver's; does into run into the core of CBD. Many U.S. subways run elevated outside the CBD, like the Silver Line in northern Virginia.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Go look at the Cleveland forum if you want to see a show. Chicago this, Chicago that, doom and gloom, the city is in peril. I like Cleveland a lot actually, have friends from there, a vast majority of them are better than to sit and fret like that.

Forget about the fact our basement is filling with water and I haven't seen the cat in over a week - lets complain and talk about the fact the neighbors garage door is still broken. How embarassing for the neighbors!

I like Cleveland very much as well and know many people there. I think what you're referencing is the ''show'' from the Chicago poster who likes to passive aggressively put Cleveland down and folks there called him out on it. Chicago is in dire straits; Illinois unemployment actually went up again (9.1%). What is constantly being reinforced here is the Chicago denial; the Chicago wind only blows in one direction, up.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by paytonc

All of our transportation modes, except maybe maglev trains, are 19th century. Trains, bicycles, cars, trucks, etc.

New elevated lines are being built in many cities, from Vancouver's Evergreen Line to the Silver Line in Northern Virginia:


P3291358 by wfyurasko, on Flickr

At least its 21st Century; kinda looks like the Orange Line from Roosevelt south/southwest. I like that style; not as much of a barrier like the elevated in the Loop.

[chirack]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Getting rid of duplicate routes because everything went underground.

Ah 50-60 years ago is when organizations like the CTA and NYCTA were formed. Basically the problem with private transit was a little beyond not profitable. Private transit was regulated like a utility making it hard for the companies to raise fares. Political pressure made it hard to reduce and restructure service and not all transit was in one company. In Chicago the EL, Street Cars, and Buses were in three companies till the CRT bought them and in the CRT they remained in three separate divisions. Oh and you had competing companies in the early days which caused some duplicate routes. i.e. The elevated operated by one company and the subway built by another!

New York had three companies, one of which owned by the city. Organizations like the CTA and NYCTA are a little more resistant to political pressure (i.e. The CTA board is appointed by the Mayor and Governor, reducing the power of the city consul). The NYCTA has a similar if more complicated set up (i.e. Appointments by Governor).

What happened was that the CTA rationalized service (and I suspect New York did the same). It closed stations so that the EL could be faster than a street car. It closed lines like Stockyards, Kenwood, Normal Park and Humboldt park(which was the only line replaced by subway and even then the subway (division street)had a better route into downtown than the line(and there is talk of rebuilding sections of this line for the circle line). Garfield in theory was replaced by the Congress line, but the tracks were coming down due to construction of the expressway.

[chirack]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Great, I Vancouver's; does into run into the core of CBD. Many U.S. subways run elevated outside the CBD, like the Silver Line in northern Virginia.

They run elevated outside because it is cheaper! Subways are usually used only when the route will distory too many buildings or thoose buildings too valueable. Also the Orange line in Chicago was built in the late 80ies-90ies.