Chicago's impression of Saint Louis (Forest Park: big house, live, vs)

[MannheimMadman]

Originally Posted by MKEastsider

I must say, the difference between Milwaukee the city and Milwaukee the metro area is probably more dissimilar than any other Midwestern city, and possibly even more so than any other city in the US. Culturally, Milwaukee's suburbs relate more to rural Wisconsin than the city they depend on economically, and I can't say I've ever been to another city where that divide is as pronounced as it is here. I would even go as far as to say that culturally, Milwaukee relates more to Chicago than anywhere else in Wisconsin, aside from maybe Madison... maybe.

I also think it's relevant that Milwaukee has both the whitest and most politically conservative suburbs of any major US city. That's not a coincidence, and it definitely informs the relationship between Milwaukee and its suburbs in a way that doesn't exist in most other places. That relationship has everything to do with why metro Milwaukee isn't growing as fast as other metro areas in the midwest, and why Milwaukee might not be as influential as it could possibly be compared to other cities.

I hear you on that. I've got family in Muskego, Wauwatosa and Waukesha. I think every single family member feels like Milwaukee is some sort of liberal scourge on the state of Wisconsin. It's very weird sort of self loathing. Personally, I love Milwaukee and try to go for as many weekend getaways as I can. To me, Milwaukee definitely feels closer to Chicago than anywhere else in WI - I especially like the fact that a lot of neighborhoods including Kilborne/Juneau Town aren't full of douchebags, but rather a lot of regular folks. I feel like you have you have to get way out in the neighborhoods of Chicago to get that.

Also, I feel like Madison is its own thing; like some bastion of hippie liberal Portlandia dropped in SE Wisconsin.

Originally Posted by reppin_the_847

Would you say the disparity between Milwaukee vs. the Milwaukee suburbs is even greater than Detroit vs. the Detroit suburbs?

Good call. I also happen to have family in Livonia, and it never ceases to amaze me how starkly different their city/suburb relationship is.

[MKEastsider]

Funny you should mention Detroit, because it's the only place I've ever lived where I thought the animosity of suburbanites towards the city even came close to Milwaukee. But even then, I would say the Milwaukee suburbs are worse. Whereas most suburbs have moved on from the "white flight" mentality of the 60s and 70s, Milwaukee's 'burbs seem permanently stuck in that area, and it shows. People in Milwaukee's collar counties really think all there is to the city is Miller Park, the Summerfest grounds, and South Central LA during the crack trade everwhere else.

[IAMDWRECK]

Originally Posted by bussybottom

In 2009 didn't Obama grant Saint Louis (MODOT) and Chicago (IDOT) with millions of dollars to connect the 2 cities with new high speed trains that will apparently move 150mph, essentially turning a 5 hour road trip into a 1 1/2 hour commute. A plane flight between the 2 cities is around an 1 hour and 10 minutes. .

If I could get the same house for half the price in Saint Louis in a nice neighborhood and just take a 1 hour train to work I would be delighted.

That's awesome!! when was ground breaking? it looks like these projects with high speed trains are about a decade in the making, I read about one between SF, Sacramento, LA and SD and one between, Savannah and ATL.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by MKEastsider

Funny you should mention Detroit, because it's the only place I've ever lived where I thought the animosity of suburbanites towards the city even came close to Milwaukee. But even then, I would say the Milwaukee suburbs are worse. Whereas most suburbs have moved on from the "white flight" mentality of the 60s and 70s, Milwaukee's 'burbs seem permanently stuck in that area, and it shows. People in Milwaukee's collar counties really think all there is to the city is Miller Park, the Summerfest grounds, and South Central LA during the crack trade everwhere else.

I've read some stories about some pretty extreme right-wing groups in Waukesha. Some of these people are practically foaming at the mouth. Simply ridicuolous..

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by IAMDWRECK

That's awesome!! when was ground breaking? it looks like these projects with high speed trains are about a decade in the making, I read about one between SF, Sacramento, LA and SD and one between, Savannah and ATL.

There are going to be "higher speed" trains running between the two cities, but not truly HSR. By the end of the year, 75% of the track between St. Louis and Chicago is supposed to be upgraded in order for the trains to hit speeds of 110 mph.

You will not be making the trip in an hour and a half though. The trains will still be stopping at Alton, Carlinville, Springfield, Bloomington-Normal, Pontiac, Joliet, and Summit on its way to Chicago. I might be forgetting a city or two as well. The trip will probably be faster than driving once the track is fully upgraded, however.

The money is also being used to completely upgrade the stations in some of those cities.

[bella84]

All I can say is that I grew up in St. Louis, moved to Chicago, moved back to St. Louis, and now have plans in the works to move back to Chicago. Both cities have their pros and cons. However, I'm inclined to agree with the OP's roommate that St. Louis still has a long way to go to catch up to Chicago in many aspects. I like that St. Louis has a reasonable cost of living, traffic is not nearly as bad as in Chicago, we have a lot of good microbreweries and local bakeries/delis/restaurants, the Muny is top-notch, and, of course, I love my hometown sports teams. I prefer Chicago for the public transportation, the mix of people from all over/ease of meeting new people, the neighborhoods, the big-city vibe, and the lake.

Both are great cities. It just depends on individual tastes and lifestyle preferences. Clearly, I go back and forth on my preferences.

[UKWildcat1981]

My guess is that look down on it, Chicago people tend to visit Indy, Cincy and St. Louis and think the other Midwest cities are a joke kinda like NYC residents think about other East Coast cities, nothing wrong with a smaller less cosmopolitan city. Lot of people don't like big cities and all the hassles that come with it. I love big cities but to each his/her own. Living in a mid to small sized city you get bored and run out of stuff to do after a year.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by bella84

All I can say is that I grew up in St. Louis, moved to Chicago, moved back to St. Louis, and now have plans in the works to move back to Chicago. Both cities have their pros and cons. However, I'm inclined to agree with the OP's roommate that St. Louis still has a long way to go to catch up to Chicago in many aspects. I like that St. Louis has a reasonable cost of living, traffic is not nearly as bad as in Chicago, we have a lot of good microbreweries and local bakeries/delis/restaurants, the Muny is top-notch, and, of course, I love my hometown sports teams. I prefer Chicago for the public transportation, the mix of people from all over/ease of meeting new people, the neighborhoods, the big-city vibe, and the lake.

Both are great cities. It just depends on individual tastes and lifestyle preferences. Clearly, I go back and forth on my preferences.

I think you have the best response.

My dating life in St. Louis sucks. Otoh, I've a more diverse group of friends in St. Louis as strange as that sounds.

St. Louis will not be catching up to Chicago in terms of urbanism! It isn't big enough.

With that being said, at my age and place in life, St. Louis is awesome. Things I did in Chicago I can do in St. Louis or most other small big cities. If I was in my twenties with a 250k salary I would be in New York City. If I was in my thirties with 100k salary I would be in DC. It all depends on a person's life.

[CourtneyR60130]

I agree totally with your friend; as a Chicagoan, my perception of St. Louis is like the younger sibling in the shadow of big brother Chicago. My parents moved from Chicago (where they were raised and lived all their lives) to St. Louis for work reasons, so it's hard not to notice St. Louis trying really hard, but never coming close to on par with big brother. The comparison isn't necessarily deserved. Maybe it's because as Midwestern towns go Chicago and St. Louis are relatively similar. You don't see people constantly comparing Indianapolis to Chicago, but for some reason St. Louis always falls victim to comparison in which it will never be able to compete.

Everything from the food, to the architecture, to the downtown, to the nightly news seems like a strange farce, an imitation of Chicago. It's certainly not an intentional imitation - I mean, come on they don't even put mozzarella cheese on their pizzas - but it's noticeable to any Chicagoan.

[personone]

I find St. Louis to be a fine city. I usually make it down there during the summers. It's got really nice suburbs and some cool neighborhoods. It's not comparable to Chicago in terms of "big city feel," so if someone prefers a major city they will likely prefer Chicago over St. Louis. St. Louis is great if you want to experience some city life, without as much of the hustle and bustle. It's also probably pretty nice in terms of cost of living.