Utterly amazing what's going on in a town literally everybody is abandoning (Chicago: countertops, appliances)

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by BRU67

That sounds about right. Maybe it's not that much but it's apparently enough to keep an invisible wall that goes from Howard to 35th Street and Western (or Kimball up north) to the Lake though!

Then there are people like me who make that amount of money and simply choose not to live within that "invisible wall". That could change in the near future though.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

Then there are people like me who make that amount of money and simply choose not to live within that "invisible wall". That could change in the near future though.

I'm curious to see the results of my poll! I'm not right on everything but my gut is normally pretty good. I will bet the vast majority live within that invisible wall.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by BRU67

That sounds about right. Maybe it's not that much but it's apparently enough to keep an invisible wall that goes from Howard to 35th Street and Western (or Kimball up north) to the Lake though!

People move to Chicago for cosmopolitan, urban experiences they couldn't get where they came from.

I never understand this criticism anymore than pointing a figure at someone and saying "You *never* visit Glenn Elyn!"

I mean aside from the odd restaurant or attraction, there is not a terrible lot of reason for most people to familiarize themselves beyond the parameters you describe.

I don't even really like the leafy, far north neighborhoods. I mean they are nice, but if I wanted to stay on a quiet, tree lined residential street surrounded by hundreds of other tree-lined residential streets, I could live almost anywhere in the United States.

It is what it is. Griping about is like griping that everyone who goes to McDonald's orders a cheeseburger. Yep. That's why they go there.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

People move to Chicago for cosmopolitan, urban experiences they couldn't get where they came from.

I never understand this criticism anymore than pointing a figure at someone and saying "You *never* visit Glenn Elyn!"

I mean aside from the odd restaurant or attraction, there is not a terrible lot of reason for most people to familiarize themselves beyond the parameters you describe.

I don't even really like the leafy, far north neighborhoods. I mean they are nice, but if I wanted to stay on a quiet, tree lined residential street surrounded by hundreds of other tree-lined residential streets, I could live almost anywhere in the United States.

It is what it is. Griping about is like griping that everyone who goes to McDonald's orders a cheeseburger. Yep. That's why they go there.

I mean look man. You just don't see it. I'm not saying that every neighborhood in the city should become like Logan Square and fill up with naked sushi theater joints or whatever that people drive all the way from Naperville to see. What I am saying is that the economic needs of the people on the south and west sides are being completely ignored and they are not being supplied with good paying jobs.

They don't need to be sexy. They just need to provide a solid tax base by being given the tools to climb their way out of their miserable impoverished status. The City needs to change its policies so that we have the fun hip Pilsens of the world, along with a larger core of middle-class residents. We need to get over outmoded ideas that we have to be "pro union," tax the crap out of everything, and maintain our non-service business-stifling climate. We need to compete with the rest of the nation to attract solid blue collar jobs here.

[personone]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I mean look man. You just don't see it. I'm not saying that every neighborhood in the city should become like Logan Square and fill up with naked sushi theater joints or whatever that people drive all the way from Naperville to see. What I am saying is that the economic needs of the people on the south and west sides are being completely ignored and they are not being supplied with good paying jobs.

They don't need to be sexy. They just need to provide a solid tax base by being given the tools to climb their way out of their miserable impoverished status. The City needs to change its policies so that we have the fun hip Pilsens of the world, along with a larger core of middle-class residents. We need to get over outmoded ideas that we have to be "pro union," tax the crap out of everything, and maintain our non-service business-stifling climate. We need to compete with the rest of the nation to attract solid blue collar jobs here.

People always mention this like it's a simple, magic bullet. Nobody is just going to come in and supply everyone on the South and West sides with a well paying job. That's wishful thinking that is NEVER going to happen.

To make those neighborhoods (or any bad neighborhood) viable, it all starts with drastically REDUCING CRIME drastically and making those neighborhoods SAFE. You do that, THEN you can attract serious investment and opportunities for well paying jobs; you will attract better teachers and it will be easier for kids to get a better education (and hopefully they can serve as positive role models); with safe neighborhoods it will be easier for those communities to go outside and be physically active and healthy; you will attract better/healthier grocery store options and better access to other services; productive citizens could then invest back in the community, making it even stronger, etc.

Bottom line is, this notion of "everything would be better if they just provided well paying jobs to people in bad neighborhoods" isn't based in reality. No companies will make that kind of large scale investment until those neighborhoods are safe.

How do you get those neighborhoods safe? I have no clue..... That's the million dollar question that this city has been dealing with for decades.

[BRU67]

Crime stems from poverty and unemployment. I mean if you're talking about investing in factories and safe neighborhoods, we have areas that are virtually completely empty on the south side. My gosh, look at the Chicago South Works site. That is vacant as far as the eye can see! It's creepy it's so vast and empty. Neighborhood crime cannot be blamed for that site's decades long vacancy.

We could reform workers' compensation laws, lower taxes, and provide incentives to encourage companies to redevelop these lands and provide jobs. Come here instead of Indiana or Kentucky.

But we don't because we have to be pro-union, pro-plaintiffs lawyers, and, of course, tax the crap out of "the Rich" to pay for "middle class" public employee voter bases. We need to look at serious reforms aimed at providing a more balanced job base.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Crime stems from poverty and unemployment. I mean if you're talking about investing in factories and safe neighborhoods, we have areas that are virtually completely empty on the south side. My gosh, look at the Chicago South Works site. That is vacant as far as the eye can see! It's creepy it's so vast and empty. Neighborhood crime cannot be blamed for that site's decades long vacancy.

We could reform workers' compensation laws, lower taxes, and provide incentives to encourage companies to redevelop these lands and provide jobs. Come here instead of Indiana or Kentucky.

But we don't because we have to be pro-union, pro-plaintiffs lawyers, and, of course, tax the crap out of "the Rich" to pay for "middle class" public employee voter bases. We need to look at serious reforms aimed at providing a more balanced job base.

In my extended circle of family and friends I do know people who do have a tradition of very "blue collar" work -- I am talking men who still work for Ford in South Chicago, others who cart around trucks full of steel and similar building material, people that do work in "manufacturing" sector running or expanding the various refineries that look like an explosion scene from a sci-fi movie -- pretty much of all them have moved from areas like Bridgeport or Hegewisch to areas in NWI. The reason they almost universally cite is wanting to get ahead with having to "know somebody". For folks who see how Chicago politicians continue "fix things" for their pals the day-to-day life in NWI is much more fair.

Neighborhoods where clout results in artificially low property taxes hurt people that are not insiders. The schemes like that have winners and losers. Folks that want a fair shot at life understand that if the live in NWI and send their kids to Purdue or IU Bloomington they'll never have to deal with the corruption of Chicago that permeates the broken mindset of Chicago.

The Tribune series that showed property taxes are HIGHER in lower income areas highlights the sort of mindset that has insiders taking care of their pals regardless of who is "rich" -- the system is set-up so a BILLIONAIRE like JB Pritzker can have his "spare mansion" assessed at a discount rate by yanking out the toilets. The money that he should have paid has to come from poorer less connected suckers...

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by chet everett

the system is set-up so a BILLIONAIRE like JB Pritzker can have his "spare mansion" assessed at a discount rate by yanking out the toilets. The money that he should have paid has to come from poorer less connected suckers...

How much do you want to bet me that at least 75% of Chicago votes for him in the next election if he's the Democratic nominee? The voters are remarkably stupid.

[Berteau]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I mean look man. You just don't see it. I'm not saying that every neighborhood in the city should become like Logan Square and fill up with naked sushi theater joints or whatever that people drive all the way from Naperville to see. What I am saying is that the economic needs of the people on the south and west sides are being completely ignored and they are not being supplied with good paying jobs.

They don't need to be sexy. They just need to provide a solid tax base by being given the tools to climb their way out of their miserable impoverished status. The City needs to change its policies so that we have the fun hip Pilsens of the world, along with a larger core of middle-class residents. We need to get over outmoded ideas that we have to be "pro union," tax the crap out of everything, and maintain our non-service business-stifling climate. We need to compete with the rest of the nation to attract solid blue collar jobs here.

Good paying jobs??!! the loop has the highest concentration of high paying jobs in the country outside of new York. Its like 6 miles from the south and west side!!! YOu do realize you have to actually graduate highschool and speak proper English, and show up on time everyday to get a "good paying job" don't you. Its not just handed to you on a silver platter.

[ParkerP]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Crime stems from poverty and unemployment. I mean if you're talking about investing in factories and safe neighborhoods, we have areas that are virtually completely empty on the south side. My gosh, look at the Chicago South Works site. That is vacant as far as the eye can see! It's creepy it's so vast and empty. Neighborhood crime cannot be blamed for that site's decades long vacancy.

We could reform workers' compensation laws, lower taxes, and provide incentives to encourage companies to redevelop these lands and provide jobs. Come here instead of Indiana or Kentucky.

But we don't because we have to be pro-union, pro-plaintiffs lawyers, and, of course, tax the crap out of "the Rich" to pay for "middle class" public employee voter bases. We need to look at serious reforms aimed at providing a more balanced job base.

I remember when CTA bus drivers were actually full time positions. People had benefits, could actually become homeowners and have a lovely retirement just from being a CTA bus driver. When they decided to make that position part time only, that damaged a lot of people's (especially Black) finances. I forgot why they did this but I remember it left a lot of people in my old hood in a wreck that many of them never recovered from.