White Sox attendance issues? (Chicago, Bridgeport: 2014, neighborhoods, buy)

[doodlemagic]

Originally Posted by personone

You are correct. For years, the NFL has had dwindling attendance, especially in cold weather cities. Most people have realized with the instant access to games that everyone has now; they can just watch games in the comfort of their home and not have to deal with expensive tickets, traffic, parking, extreme weather, crowds, or pricey food. The NFL has been blacking out local games for years if they don't sell enough tickets. That is why Stubhub does so well and the professional leagues have no problem with it. As long as they can unload the tickets (even if it is at lower prices), at least the seats will be filled.

You bring up an interesting point. I think tv viewing of games is down as well so it does seem to be just a lack of interest but the prices of games has gotten insane as well. For a family of 4 to go to a game, park, get a couple hot dogs your looking at hundreds of dollars, I'm single but if I had a wife and a kid or two I'd probably prefer to go up to the Dells for the weekend for probably a comprable amount of money as I could spend an afternoon at a game.

[MassVt]

Politics aside for the most part ( I don't mind at all if players kneel, at least it shows a little social awareness), I can see a decrease in interest in sports, esp professional leagues. Football will go on for a while, but a decline has already been set in motion. Baseball is as much a social event as anything else, as many, if not most fans aren't even watching the game. The NHL is still something of a niche sport ( although the fans they do have are passionate), and I don't know anyone who follows the regular season of the NBA.
It's nice to have these leagues around, but, as I'm long established in middle age, I'm way past the point of worrying about any team, or any player, anymore. And many in younger generations don't seem as involved as we were, either..

[personone]

Originally Posted by MassVt

Politics aside for the most part ( I don't mind at all if players kneel, at least it shows a little social awareness), I can see a decrease in interest in sports, esp professional leagues. Football will go on for a while, but a decline has already been set in motion. Baseball is as much a social event as anything else, as many, if not most fans aren't even watching the game. The NHL is still something of a niche sport ( although the fans they do have are passionate), and I don't know anyone who follows the regular season of the NBA.
It's nice to have these leagues around, but, as I'm long established in middle age, I'm way past the point of worrying about any team, or any player, anymore. And many in younger generations don't seem as involved as we were, either..

I agree. I'm in my mid/late-30’s and when I was in my late teens throughout my 20’s, I would have a heart attack if I missed a NFL/NBA game. I also loved going to/following professional sports, including MLB. In other words, I was a die-hard professional sports fan up until a few years ago. Now, while I still do follow the NFL/NBA/MLB and my teams through the season (mainly via social media/apps); it’s very rare that I will sit through a whole game. My empathy isn’t political or for any other discernsble reason; I just simply have other life interests/ priorities as I’ve gotten older. I still enjoy going to a live game (NFL, NBA, MLB- never got into NHL), but my overall zeal for pro sports has waned.

[LeotheOrangeCat]

974 is pretty low

[Milwaukee City]

The White Sox fans are not good fans at all. Cubs fans show up for anything good bad or ugly. Let's compare Cubs v White Sox attendance and we will throw Milwaukee in there for a baseline number as they are the smallest market in baseball and Chicago is number 3.

White Sox-Cubs-Brewers
MLB attendance ranking

2017 27th 6th 10th
2016 26th 5th 16th
2015 26th 6th 13th
2014 28th 11th 8th
2013 24th 12th 16th
2012 24th 10th 11th
2011 21st 9th 7th
2010 17th 7th 11th
2009 16th 6th 9th
2008 16th 7th 9th
2007 15th 6th 12th
2006 9th 6th 17th
2005 17th 6th 18th* New Owner for Brewers.

Sorry spacing didn't work well.

No matter what year it is, the White Sox will typically be 23rd in league attendance. The Cubs will typically be 6th and the Brewers will typically be 12th. Milwaukee is only 2M people and Chicago is 10M. St.Louis will almost always be 5th in total attendance. The White Sox just don't have much to cheer about, changing ownership has done wonders for Milwaukee. The White Sox fans suffer from apathy, they just don't care anymore.

2017 MLB Attendance - Major League Baseball - ESPN

[Milwaukee City]

Originally Posted by doodlemagic

You bring up an interesting point. I think tv viewing of games is down as well so it does seem to be just a lack of interest but the prices of games has gotten insane as well. For a family of 4 to go to a game, park, get a couple hot dogs your looking at hundreds of dollars, I'm single but if I had a wife and a kid or two I'd probably prefer to go up to the Dells for the weekend for probably a comprable amount of money as I could spend an afternoon at a game.

Going to a baseball game for a family of 4 isn't hundreds of dollars, they're plenty of promotions and deals that make it very affordable. I've checked, it's $7.00 per ticket to go to a Saturday night game vs the World Series Champ Astros game. 7x4 is 28(for you CPS grads). Now you can eat before the game or after the game. There is water there and you are allowed to bring some food and drinks into a game. So let's take $28.00 for 4 tickets so that would make your hot dogs...$172.00 or $86.00 each. Now I know J. Reinsdorf is cheap but I doubt even he would charge $86.00 per hot dog. There are ways to get into a game cheaply, saying it cost 200.00 at least for a family of four is just not true.

[Milwaukee City]

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/tickets...family-sundays

...feature tickets as low as $5 in the upper level and $15 in the lower level. Plus, parking is available for only $10.

BTW, I dare anyone to try too take a family of 4 to the Dells for less than $200.00, you could do it but you would be sleeping under a bridge for the weekend.

[edsg25]

I do think one can eliminate the Sox home, Comiskey/Cell//Guarantee/Whatever from its effect on White Sox attendance.

Baseball, far, far more than any other sport, is dependent on the atmosphere of the ballpark, its uniqueness and sense of place.

The Sox have a perfectly good field from a baseball perspective. The park has come a long way from its first incarnation as the new Comiskey. The Everest-like incline of the upper deck was considerably improved by lopping off its top half and many of the other changes have made the ballpark more inviting.

Still, it is a basic ballpark, the last of its kind insofar as Camden Yards destroyed forever that any kind of cookie cutter can be used to standardly stamp out ballparks (for the record, the new Comiskey was certainly an improvement from the real cookie cutters....Busch, Riverfront, 3 Rivers, Veterans, Atlanta, RFK, and the like...all football/baseball stadiums in the shape of a doughnut and virtually indistinguishable from each other.

But, as noted, Camden Yards changed the rules....and for the most part, its formula was followed in most cities: built the ballpark downtown, make the connection between it and the bygone ballparks of the first half of the 200th century, put in the quirks, and provide a lively setting around the park.

So in all honesty, the Sox inability to provide such an environment puts them at a real disadvantage.

I realize we are out of the era where teams wanting a new ballpark can get tax payers to pony up for them....and that that era is ending is a good thing. Yet it would be hard to deny that the Sox would benefit from a better ballpark in a better setting.

If they remain at 35th and the Ryan, I think one thing they may have going is that that part of the near South Side is part of a region that has experienced gentrification and the area could conceivably provide more of the right kind of atmosphere to help the Sox and their attendance. How about a Comiskeytown to go with Wrigleyville?

As I said, I do not negate any of those more than valid on the field reasons why the Sox don't draw the way they should. But I think the off the field issues I've raised are also a factor.

What this city needs is two competitive MLB teams. We are unique and we are special for we alone have had teams in both the NL and AL throughout their history (and nothing can ever take that away from us as both the NL and AL no longer even exist as both the Cubs and Sox are now in the same league, MLB. Cubs vs. Sox, White collar vs. blue collar, North vs. South, Hey, hey, holy mackerel and Na na na na.....what we've got is very good. Hope we always keep it.

[Milwaukee City]

Great Point Edsg25!

I still call it Comiskey Park, started construction in 1989 so mid-80's technology and design. It's 7th to 10th oldest stadium based upon when you start counting. No doubt about it they need a new stadium and a new location in the south loop area or near west side. Heck they could go off the board crazy and go somewhere near 55 and 294. It's going to take a new owner(not family) to build a new stadium with parking.

[fusillirob1983]

Nobody's really explaining why 974 people showed up. The Sox are bad or "Sox fans are bad" are lame and lazy reasons. Re-read my post. Paid attendance is over 10,000 for that game, while still not good, is not uncommon for April games for a team expected to come in 4th or 5th in the division. It's even worse when it's a Monday game and it gets moved from a night game to a day game. This isn't a "families can't afford it" situation. This is a "who's dumb enough to pull their kids out of school on a Monday to see a last place team in 35 degree weather and possibly snow, and it's not Opening Day and you didn't already have tickets." And again, for those that already purchased tickets, they received a voucher for an equivalent ticket to a future game.

For the overall attendance trend for the Sox to improve, they need to put a better product on the field. All the other stuff won't move the needle as much given the stadium isn't downtown.

For the guy comparing Cubs/Sox/Milwaukee attendance: The Sox haven't made the playoffs since 2008 and have gradually been more disappointing as the seasons have gone on, bottoming out record-wise in 2013. Of course attendance blows and ranks "on average 23rd", or for you "CPS grads" the average of those numbers listed is 20th, or cherry pick information if that's what you enjoy doing. Just curious if you think the Sox will continue to rank "23rd" in attendance if they make the playoffs a few years in a row? Or the Brewers are completely hopeless for several years, will they potentially see a decline? Probably. In this instance, they're doing a pretty quick rebuild, so their dip in attendance was never horrible.

The Cubs rarely take a hit in attendance, but they were in such disarray after 2010 that they finally took a hit in attendance until guess what, they made the playoffs again in 2015. For most teams, other than maybe Tampa Bay and the Cubs (in this case Rays fans tend to stay away no matter what), attendance is driven by team performance, or expected team performance based on the prior season. Look at the Blue Jays the last couple years. They're in the same dumpy stadium the past 30 years or so, but they had an attendance bump the last few years. Toronto's a big market, and the stadium is in a great location, but prior to 2015, the team hovered around .500 since they won the World Series in 1993.