Amazon looking for new headquarters (Chicago, Bridgeport: camp, tax, living)

[spaceboyzero]

Ahhh I got your question - thanks for the clarification.

I think you probably identified the root issue: people are NOT moving to Chicago (and the Midwest) in droves, so it keeps home prices low. You also have a ton of new building in areas of the city that DOES have high demand, i.e. downtown, so that basically absorbs the growth we do have.

I think the strikes Chicago has against it is A) It doesn’t have a main industry like tech or finance where people HAVE to move here. B) It then also perceived as an older, cold, burnt out Midwest city that is a “war zone” and isn’t as “cool” as up and coming cities; and many people would rather live on the coasts or the sunbelt - even if it’s only affordable on the surface.

I can’t give advice on staying or leaving ... but I am taking the plunge and buying soon. I think the city has a lot of positives that are not highlighted by the media and we’ll get through the financial mess coming out even better like NYC and DC did decades ago. And hey, if global warming predictions are correct - we’ll have prime property for our grandkids by fresh water!

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

If your global warming prediction comes true, put money on Michigan, which has about 3300 miles of Great Lakes shoreline (compared to maybe 60 miles for Illinois), and I'm too old to wait for the upswing, if it does occur. But it's a sensible conclusion - based on damage done by Florence alone, I think we need to make a strategic retreat from the ocean coasts on a long-term basis. There's going to have to be some come-to-Jesus meetings in this country about who is going to pay for natural disaster claims in the future, damage from building on known earthquake faults, hurricane / flood zones, and wildfire zones is going to have to be borne at a much greater level by the folks who choose to do so. There are homes on the east coast and in the Mississippi flood plain that have been rebuilt multiple times on the taxpayer's dime, and that madness needs to stop.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by smegmatite

Don't just think about Boston or local stuff... they would have the entire eastern seaboard to pull talent from... chicago or the midwest in general doesn't compare at all to that amount of educated people
...

The entire Northeast Region has 56 million people.

The upper Midwest has 67 million people.

Educational attainment statistics aren't as far apart as you seem to think, and the mass of population difference coupled with rates means that the population of educated people is about the same between the two regions.

[the resident09]

Originally Posted by frostopsy

People keep saying DC, but I don’t see it happening.

1. It’s expensive, both for residential and commercial properties.
2. Traffic sucks - spend one day trying to get around Northern Virginia, to downtown DC, or Bethesda MD to Reagan airport and you’ll never complain about traffic again in Chicago.
3. The district is the only real “urban” area in the DC metro region. The area with skyscrapers in VA is Rosslyn in Arlington, which is only a few blocks large. Same with Bethesda MD. Likewise DC has a height restriction. There’s very little open space for new development without bulldozing existing property- unless you get far away from the urban center and into the suburbs. Amazon wants to be in a “city center”.
4. DC city government is just as corrupt as Chicago. They also went bankrupt in the 90’s.
5. The tech industry there actually lags behind Chicago and 75 other cities.
6. The amazon employees there are for the amazon cloud service. The backbone of the internet is in Northern Virginia. They are probably doing a lot of government contracting.
7. It lacks the tech and engineering universities that amazon is looking to pull talent from.

Chicago has the space downtown, talent, and a low cost of living compared to most other cities. The deficit problem and image as a blood drenched city is counting against us.

A few fallacies here which is typically the only time I chime in.

1. The DC area is a very strong metropolis for tech and known for it, especially on the East Coast, and 3rd after Seattle and Silicon Valley nationally. And 75 other cities?? Wow not certain where your coming up with that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/tech...on-valley.html

2. DC city government is hitting on all cylinders now and the city is at at $13.8 billion surplus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.969c1cfbd1b2

3. The University of Maryland (DC area accessible by Metrorail) is in the top 15 of schools sending software engineers to Amazon today, without a headquarters nearby and having to move to Seattle. The DC metro area also has the highest concentration of Ivy League alumni in the country. The District of Columbia also pitched to infuse a talent pipeline with opening an "Amazon University" in and around the city.

4. Amazon has selected Northern Virginia already for AWS East Coast base, but currently is not operating on many federal government contracts.

I do not think that the choice has been made on HQ2 yet or is a lock for the DC region, but those points should be all made clear.

[smegmatite]

Originally Posted by emathias

The entire Northeast Region has 56 million people.

The upper Midwest has 67 million people.

Educational attainment statistics aren't as far apart as you seem to think, and the mass of population difference coupled with rates means that the population of educated people is about the same between the two regions.

dude you're talking an area of 750,000 square miles vs the furthest north east only (look at your wiki page, virginia is not even included as a state on there, neither is MD or WVA... and its only 161,000 sq miles) you should be using the entire east coast if you want a geographically comparable region (since NOVA is right in the center) and I guarantee the addition of the population of the states of Maryland, Virginia, N/S Carolina, Georgia and Florida are over double the midwest...

In 2010, the population of the states which have shoreline on the East Coast was estimated at 112,642,503 (36% of the country's total population). The East Coast is the most populated coastal area in the United States.

and just get outta here with the rest of that garbage... the midwest doesn't come close to the amount of educated people to the east coast, it is just not comparable, sorry.

[smegmatite]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

I'm not arguing that it doesn't have a lower cost of living - for debate's sake I'll acknowledge that it does. I'm asking WHY it has a lower cost of living. What makes it a "bargain", and yet people aren't moving here in droves and jacking up real estate prices? The Bay Area, Seattle, Denver and Houston have "boomed" while Chicago has lost population over the same time frame. Typically, "good deals" don't exist in a vacuum, there's usually a good reason why something is a "bargain". And once an area is identified as a bargain, people swoop in until it no longer is. To borrow a slur from the not too recent past, why is Illinois in general, and Chicago in particular, the "Sick Man" of America?

From my own personal experience over the past twenty years, my home in an inner-ring southwest suburb was a horrible investment, it didn't come close to keeping up with inflation over the past twenty years. In fact, I just offered it to someone for essentially the same price that I paid for it twenty years ago, on the condition I don't have to prep it for sale and use a realtor. The interested party will likely do basic refurbishing and then use it for a rental - she may do well with it, but I have no taste for being a long-distance landlord myself, I want to start fresh and enjoy my retirement. Should I not be so quick to throw in the towel and get out of Illinois?

because Illinois actually doesn't have a low cost of living and chicago especially... Do any of you actually make any money and live downtown? Jeezus its insanity with the nickle and dime fees/taxes/tickets/extortions ruin everything... yeah you can get a cheap house here but so what, the taxes are ridiculous in comparison and kills the "how much a month" crowd, its only going to get far far worse... as mortgage rates increase and tax rates increase... good luck is all i'm going to say...

[spaceboyzero]

Originally Posted by smegmatite

because Illinois actually doesn't have a low cost of living and chicago especially... Do any of you actually make any money and live downtown? Jeezus its insanity with the nickle and dime fees/taxes/tickets/extortions ruin everything... yeah you can get a cheap house here but so what, the taxes are ridiculous in comparison and kills the "how much a month" crowd, its only going to get far far worse... as mortgage rates increase and tax rates increase... good luck is all i'm going to say...

Yes, I have a family of 4 and live in the city (in Edgewater).

Clearly you didn't read the exchange that Curly Q. Bobalink and I had (with the sources I included).

Curly Q. Bobalink asked why Chicago was seen as a relative bargain to others for Amazon. EVEN WITH all of those tax increases and fees, Chicago and Illinois is NOWHERE NEAR the cost of living in a comparable coastal region (i.e. NYC, Bay Area). AND, states like Texas with no state taxes are even worse at the nickle and diming because they have to get revenue elsewhere

Long story short - MANY big cities are having the same financial issues with pension liabilities on different scales and the Midwest (and Illinois/Chicago) is still quantitatively one of the best bargains for Amazon to consider, which was the topic of the thread; regardless of all of those other issues that you brought up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/30/u...ng-market.html

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/john-...lent-challenge

[chet everett]

News or not?
Amazon was back in Chicago last month, as its search for HQ2 narrows - Chicago Tribune


Bezos and his lieutenants are well known as "squeeze till they hurt" negotiators, they very likely will "pit" developers against both their internal and external competitors. Frankly I would expect that they'll use the "runner up" to drive down the cost of the "winner" in much the same way that the White Sox bullied their way to an unbelievably sweet deal in Chicago when Florida was desperate for a team... Saving the Sox Aug & Sept 1988

My gut says the real "due diligence" happened months ago, and the result of that probably cut the short list to a "really short list" that may have included Chicago area sites as much for the well known competitive insight of the deep staffs of real estate firms eager to lay out strategies that might end being used against Chicago...

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/amazon...s-competition/


My money is still on DC -- https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...cussion-2018-9

Or maybe Miami ??? https://www.miamiherald.com/news/bus...217842310.html

[dtcbnd03]

Agree Chet. Musk did the same thing when he built the gigafactory in Nevada. Just made cities negotiate against themselves squeezing every last dollar. It's gonna be DC or Boston and they already decided months ago but just waiting to get as much as they can. After Rahm announced he's not running again you could rule out any last hope for Chicago.

[beaniemac]

if amazon were to choose chicago, does ANYONE know what location they were looking to build the HQ? would it be downtown or in the fulton market, or perhaps on the south side.