What has happened to Chicago? (East St. Louis, Justice: rent, hotels, lawyers)

[artillery77]

Originally Posted by Master Jay

artillery77, I wonder what those areas that you mentioned may have been like, say 50 years ago. When I read those "History of..." books, those neighborhoods looked like they were awesome places to be. It is very sad that things changed the way they did.

And as you and I mentioned, there are DEFINITELY great areas of the city! I rode my bike up and down parts of Forest Glen on Sunday. Some guy asked me to help him load his lawnmower into his truck, he asked me about the status of Milwaukee festivals, and it was just great friendly interaction. And unfortunately not everyone gets that type of impression of Chicago, when they think about it.... And closeby was a house that was featured in the movie, "Stir of Echoes", if anyone has ever seen that movie. I wanted to ride by and take a look.

One of my theories has always been: Make community service a part of an offender's sentence. There is NO reason why a neighborhood should have overgrown weeds, broken glass on the sidewalk, trash in the streets!!! Forest Glen would not allow it, for example. So make these other areas follow suit. It's a great way to have some pride in how your area looks and teaches some responsibility. Plus, if an offender has to clean it up they would certainly tell their neighbors, "Don't keep trashing the place because I AM the one that is being forced to clean it!".. I figure, the youth and the residents would listen to them over a police officer (which ALSO is sad, because people should be respecting their own areas ANYWAYS, as well as authority figures). But hey, at least it's a start!

A lot of them became damned neighborhoods when the projects began to decline. Oral history tells me when the projects were first built, they were much more likely to be ok places to live where those starting out could get affordable housing....but overtime they became overrun by criminals and not maintained, but with high enough concentrations that they destroyed the surrounding area. Few areas are more secure than being near the top of a high rise....if you can control the entrance points which are confined to a few areas. Criminals did not miss this opportunity.

A long time ago I worked under a truly seasoned and good investigative auditor whose entire practice was generally for attorneys or internal investigations where the truth was wanted and documentation needed. How did an embezzlement happen. Where did loan proceeds actually go. Follow the money type stuff. He's now dead, and he was very good at his job, but as salty as one with a lifetime of that might be. At any point. There were two jobs he had an open requisition to take up if he would ever consider doing so. He never intended on taking them, but used them as basically a threat to us all that he would and staff them with us to make sure we were working hard. One was a large department store that was having trouble with missing inventory from their trucks in New Jersey. The other was investigating the projects and assessing whether damages restored by the city were actually caused by the tenants and determining how much the City should attempt to collect from the tenants. To this day I believe either job would have been a death sentence...and that's coming from a backdrop where people, once powerful but cornered with enough evidence to realize they were going to jail for a long time, would occasionally pull weapons.

The later Daley may not be loved, but I had to smile when I heard from afar that they were eliminating the projects in lieu of less concentrated and more spread out housing in neighborhoods....there'd just be a 5-10 year delay between the tearing down of the one and the opening of the others....there goes the inner ring suburbs!!

[personone]

Originally Posted by artillery77

A lot of them became damned neighborhoods when the projects began to decline. Oral history tells me when the projects were first built, they were much more likely to be ok places to live where those starting out could get affordable housing....but overtime they became overrun by criminals and not maintained, but with high enough concentrations that they destroyed the surrounding area. Few areas are more secure than being near the top of a high rise....if you can control the entrance points which are confined to a few areas. Criminals did not miss this opportunity.

A long time ago I worked under a truly seasoned and good investigative auditor whose entire practice was generally for attorneys or internal investigations where the truth was wanted and documentation needed. How did an embezzlement happen. Where did loan proceeds actually go. Follow the money type stuff. He's now dead, and he was very good at his job, but as salty as one with a lifetime of that might be. At any point. There were two jobs he had an open requisition to take up if he would ever consider doing so. He never intended on taking them, but used them as basically a threat to us all that he would and staff them with us to make sure we were working hard. One was a large department store that was having trouble with missing inventory from their trucks in New Jersey. The other was investigating the projects and assessing whether damages restored by the city were actually caused by the tenants and determining how much the City should attempt to collect from the tenants. To this day I believe either job would have been a death sentence...and that's coming from a backdrop where people, once powerful but cornered with enough evidence to realize they were going to jail for a long time, would occasionally pull weapons.

The later Daley may not be loved, but I had to smile when I heard from afar that they were eliminating the projects in lieu of less concentrated and more spread out housing in neighborhoods....there'd just be a 5-10 year delay between the tearing down of the one and the opening of the others....there goes the inner ring suburbs!!

This makes good sense, but what I still can never understand, The Bronx, specifically the South Bronx (and even parts of Brooklyn and Queens), when through similar situations throughout the 90s where projects declined and were torn down. Specifically the Bronx, were some of the most violent and high-crime areas you could imagine. Then you add in parts of Queens and Brooklyn that were very bad too, yet somehow NYC (with a population over double Chicago's) was able to get a hold of their violent crimes numbers to be lower than Chicago's.

As some mentioned, Guiliani's influence with the police force may have set the tone (you can't really police like that nowadays), so maybe they somehow influenced the culture and that is still in place now.

It's still surprising to me, why Chicago is so different (even though I've heard the various reasons).

[artillery77]

I don't know much about NYC so I don't know. Maybe it's because Trump made NYC great again?

[nana053]

Originally Posted by artillery77

I don't know much about NYC so I don't know. Maybe it's because Trump made NYC great again?

Because he moved out?

[Robert9]

Originally Posted by nana053

Because he moved out?

Trump I bet is glad he got out of NYC which is slowley starting to become as bad as Chicago recently

[nana053]

Originally Posted by Robert9

Trump I bet is glad he got out of NYC which is slowley starting to become as bad as Chicago recently

I think NYC is glad to be rid of him. He is so corrupt. They have (and had) numerous lawsuits against him.

[StopAtWilloughby]

He sold his properties? Good job Hillary - her campaign of racist hatred is still working.

[Robert9]

Originally Posted by nana053

I think NYC is glad to be rid of him. He is so corrupt. They have (and had) numerous lawsuits against him.

Like I said I bet he is glad to be out of there. NYC is starting to trend back to its old ways and becoming too much like Chicago. Not nearly that bad yet, but getting too close

[StopAtWilloughby]

Originally Posted by nana053

I think NYC is glad to be rid of him. He is so corrupt. They have (and had) numerous lawsuits against him.

Can you please offer explanation of how he is corrupt?

[artillery77]

Didn't mean to derail, I just have no background in which to make personone's comparison. Figured I'd say so in a funny way. Totally was not meant as a serious comment.

Why crime went down in NYC and not Chicago? All I know is that they had a stop and frisk program which has been deemed bad now. They had massive redevelopment and are on an island so space runs out faster there than in Chicago. I think they put all the projects on Staten Island, which is physically separated. Property is more expensive there than in Chicago, so maybe it simply pushed into a different area.

I guess what I'm saying is Personone posed a good question....I just can't answer it because I don't know.