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I know the hotels wont be open for awhile downtown because there are people not traveling, and in fact if there is a quarantine, that will lose potential business just even with that.
My fave hotel near me, i used to go into the restaurant and now they might not open up till May 2021. That's when they think business will return.. but one never knows.
With offices costing so much in rent, airplane & hotel expenses, etc. if they can hold virtual meetings, that is a huge savings.
with crime, and protests and rioting, no one wants to get involved in that, so that leaves downtown empty.
I feel bad for the stores on Michigan Ave who got robbed, looted, arsoned, even if they are fancy stores, they still have employees that are regular middle class people who have families and lives to handle and they are just working to support themselves, along with the restaurant servers who are not rich. Now those jobs are not open, so that goes by the wayside.
Detroit is not safer, it is in fact worse than last year at the same time. Almost all large cities are seeing an uptick in crime with so many people not working, some not qualifying for unemployment, money tighter everywhere, and the police departments stretched to the max sometimes because of covid circulating within the depts.
I think some people would prefer that Chicago and other large cities experience decline because they don't like Lightfoot or want cities to decline because they are democratic strongholds.
Cities are certainly suffering more because of the pandemic, but I think they will come back stronger than ever once we have a vaccine. Millions upon billions of people worldwide that love the vibrancy of cities miss the close interaction, hustle and bustle, and will rush to experience it again asap!
I got that from the police chief of Detroit who was saying that their approach to policing the communities was telling about how less crime is happening.. sounded like he has a great idea.
Suburbs have been declining , I posted a map showing areas where poverty is increasing, you should look at it. contradicts your assertions. Covid19 and one day of looting on Michigan Ave isn't going to change decades long trends.
FYI, the suburbs were looted too
You should keep up.
I know the media doesn’t report it, because they hate reporting instances of minorities committing crime, but crime has been rampant in downtown Chicago. The inner city youths take el trains downtown en masse, where they harass and rob pedestrians. Robberies on the Red Line are virtually a daily occurrence. There was a recent murder on Oak St. and a couple shootings on Wacker. Gangs of youths run into stores on Michigan and run out with arms full of merchandise.
Carjackings are now common downtown. There is a recent trend, since hotel rates downtown have been drastically reduced, of large crowds holding boisterous parties all night long which tend to turn violent and spill out onto the streets. I could go on.
To find out what’s really happening in Chicago, check out CWBChicago.com and SecondCityCop blog.
I know the media doesn’t report it, because they hate reporting instances of minorities committing crime, but crime has been rampant in downtown Chicago. The inner city youths take el trains downtown en masse, where they harass and rob pedestrians. Robberies on the Red Line are virtually a daily occurrence. There was a recent murder on Oak St. and a couple shootings on Wacker. Gangs of youths run into stores on Michigan and run out with arms full of merchandise.
Carjackings are now common downtown. There is a recent trend, since hotel rates downtown have been drastically reduced, of large crowds holding boisterous parties all night long which tend to turn violent and spill out onto the streets. I could go on.
To find out what’s really happening in Chicago, check out CWBChicago.com and SecondCityCop blog.
Just to add it is not just a Chicago thing to add to its death claimed. Other cities too have gotten these crime sprees entering their cores more. Some had more then Chicago all along. Lot of cities in the same boat even those in Red states.
That is keeping up too. Chicago has more retail to even lose in its core vs other major cities in this era they are hurting and going bankrupt Nationally in keeping up on news and reading other major city forums. I don't need the expose' of links more likely to claim only they post the truth to push a anti-Left agenda and claim all surpressed.
Even my small city never prints every crime event in neighborhoods. You may hear of some from others living there etc. Why do we think every Media outlet should hype each robbery and car jacking etc? I see Chicago news has hyped the Oak St Rap shooting and Gold Coast shooting and others. So what does one expect media to report every crime as some LINKS YOU CALL REAL TRUTH HAVE A PURPOSE and AGENDA to promote ONLY IT?
Once more of the workforce is back filling the offices and tourist. More normalcy should return and of course for those who promote a Political outcome should bring ALL GETS BETTER if Trump wins? Then at least some have that to put their hopes on and even this Pandemic thing automatically is moot if he wins. I even hear that by me in small city America.
I know the hotels wont be open for awhile downtown because there are people not traveling, and in fact if there is a quarantine, that will lose potential business just even with that.
My fave hotel near me, i used to go into the restaurant and now they might not open up till May 2021. That's when they think business will return.. but one never knows.
With offices costing so much in rent, airplane & hotel expenses, etc. if they can hold virtual meetings, that is a huge savings.
with crime, and protests and rioting, no one wants to get involved in that, so that leaves downtown empty.
I feel bad for the stores on Michigan Ave who got robbed, looted, arsoned, even if they are fancy stores, they still have employees that are regular middle class people who have families and lives to handle and they are just working to support themselves, along with the restaurant servers who are not rich. Now those jobs are not open, so that goes by the wayside.
Yes. I have been predicting for a long while that there will not be anything remotely close to "normal" for the next couple of years. May 2021 is very optimistic. I'd say by May 2022, you may see somewhat resemblance to "normal" (although there will likely be some permanent changes).
NotI live in PA small city. My state has bars restricted to 25% occupancy of normal. No one sitting at a bar in bars. Tables only and must by food. The Gov expects it to be a meal. But hotdogs, Pizza in ones with no normal food and even those that do serve fried/grilled food offering $1 hotdogs and fries. One even Peanut and butter sandwich and cold cheese one just to have food in front of you.
More are temporarily closing again as profits plummet. By me are still volunteer firehouses with bars and serve food with one a full restaurant for lunches only too. My one is closing as too many regulars are not going out now and wont open till this pandemic or restrictions lifted. Most set up some tables around the bar of the bar are limited by occupancy anyway. Most don't allow pool the couple that do is surprising.
Point is every major city is hurting. Small cities to Big. Chicagoans seem to think they are worst and politically it is extreme oh both sides as C-D in this forum tells me which side is extreme most Reasons for everything of course. But I am in CONSERVATIVE Central PA which some labeled Pennsytucky to Philly and Pittsburgh with Alabama inbetween.
I have hear the extreme rhetoric in clubs especially. Like the no matter how extreme. Some it is soooo difficult. Many Big city poor folk moving in for low cost housing and rents, good schools. They do no come for jobs. Enough said.
You feel too unsafe in Chicagoland or ultra-conservative expecting the worst yet? Do not stay. Professionals have far more opportunity to pick up and move to greener pastures.
Not anything even close to normal is Nationwide for many. Some think it is only Big cities and theirs is worst. Try a major city in a red state that is also more conservative.
Until I start seeing thousands of videos on tiktok extolling the wonders of the burbs, I won't be convinced otherwise.
And Chinese investors will have mysteriously started buying up all the prime real estate in Yorkville. Then you'll know.
All kidding aside, this isn't gonna happen. Once the vaccine comes out early next year, things will begin returning to normal in earnest. By this time next year, the economy will barely remember COVID. Those who bought in the suburbs expecting the big push will be disappointed.
There are so many factors at work right now, it's quite difficult to tell which ones will dominate in the next decade.
First off, COVID-19 will dominate everything for the next 2-5 years. 2 if we're lucky, 5 if we're not.
Then, specific to Chicago, "the suburbs" isn't one homogenous entity anymore (not that it ever was), but especially these days you have inner-ring suburbs that are urban-like and can attract city residents, like Oak Park and Evanston and probably a few others. Then you have inner-ring suburbs that aren't particularly urban, have some of the same urban problems the city has, but have good access to the city, like Skokie, Berwyn, Cicero, etc, that will probably hold their own. Then there are the inner ring suburbs that have urban problems, don't have great access to the city, and are already falling apart (Harvey and Maywood might be the most stark examples that people have heard of). Then there are further out suburbs, places that used to be popular because of good Metra access. COVID-19's mid-to-long-term effect on mass transit will play a huge role in how well those places do. If people start to feel safe on Metra again, those places, like Oakbrook and Naperville and the North Shore will be fine. If people don't feel safe on Metra, we'll start to see fights between downtown and the suburbs for office space again. That will also impact neighborhoods in the city that have been popular with professionals, like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Lincoln Square, Edgewater, etc, that are popular because they have good transit access to the Loop.
Then you have downtown. Despite the overall city's population loss, the downtown area, aka Central Area, has seen strong, steady population growth along with strong jobs growth. Many people like living downtown, and there seems to still be demand for downtown buildings - I live near Wells and Huron, with around 1,250 new units within the past 3-4 years just within 2 blocks. Some predicted those buildings would be mostly vacant, and they are still filling up, but there seems to still be demand for them. I live in a condo building, and one of my neighbors sold their place very quickly, for more than asking price, and they didn't price it at firesale prices, either. They priced it optimistically and still got more than they asked for, and quickly, and it was listed *after* COVID-19 became an issue. Is that just one anecdote, or is that true across downtown, I don't know. But one proposed hotel on Erie has been converted to condos and is moving forward, and a residential building at Wells and Chicago is proceeding full speed ahead, and a high-end condo building at Lasalle and Erie is back under construction after a brief pause at the height of COVID, and the residential development at Randolph and Wabash is underway again, as is the giant project at Chicago and State - so most developers seem to still see demand for the area. The 2008 crisis stopped construction downtown, COVID has not. Not everyone wants to live downtown, obviously, but that was true before COVID, and I suspect that a large segment of the people scared away from downtown by COVID weren't very into dense, urban living to begin with. And despite it seeming like "common sense" that dense, urban living automatically means high-risk for COVID infections, reality is more nuanced. I suspect some of the developments may have some tweaks to HVAC engineering, but past that developers seem to think demand isn't going to collapse.
And while crime in the city overall has risen recently, crime downtown has been mostly under control since the one bad weekend immediately after the George Floyd death. And, again, people who chose to live downtown are typically not the type to be scared off by one incident, even one big incident. It isn't the 1950s where an expectation of security was suddenly shattered by completely incomprehensible events. It's 2020, where people have a certain tolerance for hearing about crime, and even a certain tolerance for one event like the weekend of riots. After all, people are choosing to live downtown despite 9/11- this is the generation that saw what one major event could do to a downtown and still chose to live downtown. It's a tougher crowd than past generations may have been. This weekend was the first for River North to have street dining, with sections of Clark and Wells shut down over the weekend for the restaurants, and they seemed very well attended (almost too well attended, in my opinion), and the Gold Coast has street sections shut down 7 days per week now.
I agree that it really will be tourism that is the biggest question. Right now, even if people wanted to be tourists in Chicago, they really can't be. There are quarantine requirements, and school is starting up again, and the Feds are only now starting to act with any true coordination against COVID, meaning the nation won't see COVID under control until next year unless we're really, really, lucky. And only then will we have any window into what domestic tourism will look like going forward. International tourism we know will be completely dead for years to come. If/when we get a decent vaccine, the question for international tourism will be, "Is there pent-up demand to visit the U.S., or does the rest of the world no longer consider America to be a civilized country because of our completely asinine non-response to the COVID crisis?" I can see many international tourists (especially Europeans) deciding that visiting America is more like visiting South Africa or Venezuela than visiting Japan or Australia, and that won't be good for international tourism at all. I think domestic tourism will have some pent-up demand, though. As long as Chicago doesn't suffer crime growth any worse than other major cities, or any more major riots, I think domestic tourism could bounce back strong once there's a vaccine.
Of course, if there isn't a viable or particularly certain vaccine, then the "new normal" may be a big, permanent drop in tourist dollars for urban centers. Given how much domestic tourism Chicago gets, that would be painful, and it will also make downtown less attractive for living because it will support fewer restaurants and shops that make it so attractive to professionals. If companies also decamp for the suburbs, it could be terrible. But if companies decide that dense offices in downtown aren't any worse than dense offices in the suburbs, we might just make it through this eventually.
No matter what, though, the next 5 years will be hard. And if Trump somehow manages to win in November, you can kiss America being a superpower goodbye. Countries that, right now, are waiting to see if the U.S. comes to its senses this election will give up on us and the Euro may finally become the world's reserve currency. If that happens, the era of American exceptionalism will truly be gone, never to return in our lifetimes, because the financial impact will be devastating.
Emathias - so the neighborhoods farther away from downtown complained that all or most policemen were protecting downtown and that's why the neighborhoods often got looted and rioted and destroyed.
So if you live downtown, do you think that inadvertently made it safer for you? Since you are living in the prime location where many police were?
I can tell you that over in another area very near downtown, the riots were a block away, but didn't hit near me. I felt safe enough as long as i didn't go out and get caught up in a riot by accident. i was kinda grateful that the police were very close by.
There are so many factors at work right now, it's quite difficult to tell which ones will dominate in the next decade.
First off, COVID-19 will dominate everything for the next 2-5 years. 2 if we're lucky, 5 if we're not.
Then, specific to Chicago, "the suburbs" isn't one homogenous entity anymore (not that it ever was), but especially these days you have inner-ring suburbs that are urban-like and can attract city residents, like Oak Park and Evanston and probably a few others. Then you have inner-ring suburbs that aren't particularly urban, have some of the same urban problems the city has, but have good access to the city, like Skokie, Berwyn, Cicero, etc, that will probably hold their own. Then there are the inner ring suburbs that have urban problems, don't have great access to the city, and are already falling apart (Harvey and Maywood might be the most stark examples that people have heard of). Then there are further out suburbs, places that used to be popular because of good Metra access. COVID-19's mid-to-long-term effect on mass transit will play a huge role in how well those places do. If people start to feel safe on Metra again, those places, like Oakbrook and Naperville and the North Shore will be fine. If people don't feel safe on Metra, we'll start to see fights between downtown and the suburbs for office space again. That will also impact neighborhoods in the city that have been popular with professionals, like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Lincoln Square, Edgewater, etc, that are popular because they have good transit access to the Loop.
Harvey is served by two Metras, and a pace bus terminal, which has services that connects to CTA in the city( via 95th/Dan Dyan). The Metra in Harvey and other south suburbs along the same rail(Metra Electric Branch) will get you a trip directly to a couple of the safer, high density southside areas and main downtown attractions nearest to the lake such as South Kenwood, Hyde Park, 18th St. (short distance to McCormick Place and not too far from Chinatown), Roosevelt (South Loop), and Millennium Park.
Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 08-09-2020 at 11:31 PM..
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