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It's ALL MEN with the EXCEPTION OF CHRIST. I never meant ALL MEN without EXCEPTION. I meant ALL MEN within the context.
It's good that you are interpreting the meaning of the phrase using the context. Based on this, according to what you have said, the phrase "all men" can in fact be used to mean "not all men" if the context supports it. If it were incorrect to use it that way, then Paul would have been inspired to use a different phrase. Therefore, we have to conclude--if you are right--that the Greek phrase for "all men" does not have to mean every single man. And if that is the case, then it is also possible that it does not mean "every single person" when referring to the recipients of Christ's redemption--unless the context demands it, of course. So here is what you have been saying so far:
1. Christ was not one of the "all men" who were made sinners. Therefore, "all men" does not mean "every single man" when referring to those who were made sinners. Moreover, nobody except Christ was sinless. On that we agree.
2. Christ was not one of the "all men" who receive justification of life, since he didn't need that, being sinless himself. I'm sure we agree on that as well.
None of this, however, guarantees that there are not more exceptions to the "all men" who receive justification of life. The only way it could mean that all men without exception received justification would be if Paul were drawing an exact parallel between the effects of Adam's sin and the effects of Christ's righteousness. If the text demanded such an exact parallel, you would have a case. It does not. Verses 14-17 show this clearly because they indicate that Paul did not intend such an exact parallel.
This passage is not the hands-down, case-closed proof for universalism that you think it is.
The proposition that THE MANY = ALL KINDS OF MEN in Romans 5:19 …Is PROBLEMATIC because it suggests that...
ALL KINDS OF MEN were MADE SINNERS and that among these there were SOME KINDS OF MEN which were not MADE SINNERS.
Scripture is Clear that… ALL MEN have SINNED with the EXCEPTION OF CHRIST and that GROUP OF MEN …IS… THE MANY that were MADE SINNERS.
So far so good...
Quote:
AND... THE MANY that were MADE SINNERS ...IS... THE MANY which will be MADE RIGHTEOUS.
BZZZZZT.... Again, only if Paul intended an exact parallel. You are jumping from "all men except Christ were made sinners" to the conclusion that "all men except Christ receive justification of life." The former does not guarantee the latter because the two were not intended to be precise parallels. Asserting it all day long will not eliminate that fact. You are ignoring vv. 14-17.
It's good that you are interpreting the meaning of the phrase using the context. Based on this, according to what you have said, the phrase "all men" can in fact be used to mean "not all men" if the context supports it. If it were incorrect to use it that way, then Paul would have been inspired to use a different phrase. Therefore, we have to conclude--if you are right--that the Greek phrase for "all men" does not have to mean every single man. And if that is the case, then it is also possible that it does not mean "every single person" when referring to the recipients of Christ's redemption--unless the context demands it, of course. So here is what you have been saying so far:
1. Christ was not one of the "all men" who were made sinners. Therefore, "all men" does not mean "every single man" when referring to those who were made sinners. Moreover, nobody except Christ was sinless. On that we agree.
2. Christ was not one of the "all men" who receive justification of life, since he didn't need that, being sinless himself. I'm sure we agree on that as well.
None of this, however, guarantees that there are not more exceptions to the "all men" who receive justification of life. The only way it could mean that all men without exception received justification would be if Paul were drawing an exact parallel between the effects of Adam's sin and the effects of Christ's righteousness. If the text demanded such an exact parallel, you would have a case. It does not. Verses 14-17 show this clearly because they indicate that Paul did not intend such an exact parallel.
This passage is not the hands-down, case-closed proof for universalism that you think it is.
It doesn't mean ALL MEN without EXCEPTION recieve JUSTIFICATION because like you said CHRIST didn't need JUSTIFICATION.
It's ALL MEN with the EXCEPTION OF CHRIST that recieve JUSTIFICATION.
THE EFFECTS OF ADAM'S OFFENSE are FINITE, the EFFECTS OF CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS are INFINITE.
That is how the EFFECTS OF CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS far EXCEED and far OUTWEIGHT the EFFECT'S OF ADAM'S OFFENSE.
The many are ONLY THOSE that were made sinners by Adam. It is ONLY THOSE sinners, and NO ONE ELSE, that are Justified by Christ.
Jesus also said the same thing here, but using different words:
Luk 5:32 I came not to call righteous men, but sinners, to reformation.'
Luk 19:10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.'
It is ONLY the LOST that are called, ONLY the LOST whom Jesus seeks, and it is ONLY the LOST that are saved by Jesus. The righteous, as Jesus said, have no part in the plan of salvation. The righteous are NOT INCLUDED in the many.
The LOST are the MANY that are justified by Christ's blood. ONLY the LOST are called, saved and justified, NO ONE ELSE. The righteous have no need. Look here:
Mat 9:12 And Jesus having heard, said to them, `They who are whole have no need of a physician, but they who are ill;
Now the question is, who are the righteous ones as opposed to the lost ones (THE MANY)? Well, if we read the scriptures, it will tell us here:
Rom 3:10 according as it hath been written--`There is none righteous, not even one;
If you thought you were one of the righteous ones, then I'm sorry, but there is no Jesus for you, you're out of luck. But I seriously doubt this is the case. The good book says NOT EVEN ONE is righteous. This is a good thing, otherwise some would not be saved by Jesus, right? .
BZZZZZT.... Again, only if Paul intended an exact parallel. You are jumping from "all men except Christ were made sinners" to the conclusion that "all men except Christ receive justification of life." The former does not guarantee the latter because the two were not intended to be precise parallels. Asserting it all day long will not eliminate that fact. You are ignoring vv. 14-17.
Paul intended to show how CHRIST'S OBEDIENCE had A MUCH GREATER EFFECT than ADAM"S DISOBEDIENCE.
IF... THE EFFECTS OF ADAM'S DISOBEDIENCE extend ...FOREVER... and THE EFFECTS OF CHRIST'S OBEDIENCE extend ...FOREVER... it would be an EXACT PARALLEL.
BUT... THE EFFECTS OF ADAM'S DISOBEDIENCE don't extend ...FOREVER... AT ALL meaning ALL MEN that were MADE SINNERS as a result ...CANNOT ...REMAIN SINNERS... FOREVERMORE.
Being MADE SINNERS was the EFFECT OF ADAM'S DISOBEDIENCE. This cannot extend ...FOREVER... FOR ANY MAN or THE EFFECTS OF ADAM are EQUAL to THE EFFECTS OF CHRIST.
ALL MEN that were MADE SINNERS must be MADE RIGHTEOUS ...FOREVERMORE... or THE EFFECTS OF CHRIST'S OBEDIENCE don't EXCEED the EFFECTS OF ADAM'S DISOBEDIENCE.
IF... ALL MEN that were MADE SINNERS ...DON'T... REMAIN SINNERS... and are thus ALL MADE RIGHTEOUS ...FOREVERMORE... then
the EFFECTS CHRIST'S OBEDIENCE are FAR SUPERIOR TO the EFFECTS OF ADAM'S DISOBEDIENCE.
BZZZZZT.... Again, only if Paul intended an exact parallel. You are jumping from "all men except Christ were made sinners" to the conclusion that "all men except Christ receive justification of life." The former does not guarantee the latter because the two were not intended to be precise parallels. Asserting it all day long will not eliminate that fact. You are ignoring vv. 14-17.
I don't think MANY is affected by the other verses but the GIFT is not the exact parallel of the SIN. There IS however a direct parallel between MANY and MANY as it is the same word... Normally people use the same word in the same sentence to mean the same thing in every language.. otherwise there would be a lot of confusion in conversations? Don't you think?
So to recap - The "indirect" parallel is between the Gift and the SIN but the direct parallel is the many.. Gift to many. Sin to many. The many stays the same.
I don't think MANY is affected by the other verses but the GIFT is not the exact parallel of the SIN. There IS however a direct parallel between MANY and MANY as it is the same word... Normally people use the same word in the same sentence to mean the same thing in every language.. otherwise there would be a lot of confusion in conversations? Don't you think?
So to recap - The "indirect" parallel is between the Gift and the SIN but the direct parallel is the many.. Gift to many. Sin to many. The many stays the same.
Very good! I was going to bring this up.
The Exact Parallel is between the term ...THE MANY... not between the ...GIFT... and the ...TRESPASS...
The ...GIFT... is not like the ...TRESPASS... ( Romans 5:15 )
...THE MANY... that were ...MADE SINNERS... is ...THE MANY... that will be ...MADE RIGHTEOUS...
It doesn't say anywhere that ...THE MANY... that were ...MADE SINNERS... is not like ...THE MANY... that will be ...MADE RIGHTEOUS...
The many are ONLY THOSE that were made sinners by Adam. It is ONLY THOSE sinners, and NO ONE ELSE, that are Justified by Christ.
Jesus also said the same thing here, but using different words:
Luk 5:32 I came not to call righteous men, but sinners, to reformation.'
Luk 19:10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.'
It is ONLY the LOST that are called, ONLY the LOST whom Jesus seeks, and it is ONLY the LOST that are saved by Jesus. The righteous, as Jesus said, have no part in the plan of salvation. The righteous are NOT INCLUDED in the many.
The LOST are the MANY that are justified by Christ's blood. ONLY the LOST are called, saved and justified, NO ONE ELSE. The righteous have no need. Look here:
Mat 9:12 And Jesus having heard, said to them, `They who are whole have no need of a physician, but they who are ill;
Now the question is, who are the righteous ones as opposed to the lost ones (THE MANY)? Well, if we read the scriptures, it will tell us here:
Rom 3:10 according as it hath been written--`There is none righteous, not even one;
If you thought you were one of the righteous ones, then I'm sorry, but there is no Jesus for you, you're out of luck. But I seriously doubt this is the case. The good book says NOT EVEN ONE is righteous. This is a good thing, otherwise some would not be saved by Jesus, right? .
I almost missed your post what with all my posting. Great way to look at it! Therefore some have it backwards. It is the lost that are saved not the found that are saved.
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But I seriously doubt this is the case. The good book says NOT EVEN ONE is righteous. This is a good thing, otherwise some would not be saved by Jesus, right? 
.
It is the lost that are saved not the found that are saved. 
