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I totally agree "the many" (with definite article in the Greek) in verse 19 are equated with "all" in verse 18, therefore "the many" are literally all men
For even as, through the DISOBEDIENCE OF THE ONE MAN... THE MANY were MADE SINNERS
SECOND HALF OF THE VERSE
so also, through the OBEDIENCE OF THE ONE MAN... THE MANY will be MADE RIGHTEOUS.
This Scripture teaches that... THE MANY that were MADE SINNERS through ADAM are the SAME MANY that will be MADE RIGHTEOUS through CHRIST.
THE MANY in the FIRST HALF OF THE VERSE cannot mean LESS THAN ALL MEN because ALL MEN were MADE SINNERS and not just SOME.
Likewise… THE MANY in the SECOND HALF OF THE VERSE cannot mean LESS THAN ALL MEN because the Scripture is drawing a Parallel.
It's a parallel, but it's not an exact parallel, as vv. 15-17 show clearly:
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
It's a parallel, but it's not an exact parallel, as vv. 15-17 show clearly:
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
So you just proved that the gift is much more abundant than the sin! Are you trying to prove the OP's point? The passage isn't difficult. The many is still the many yet the many and much more through Christ will receive the gift...
I guess maybe I don't understand how you are disagreeing (if at all).
So you just proved that the gift is much more abundant than the sin! Are you trying to prove the OP's point? The passage isn't difficult. The many is still the many yet the many and much more through Christ will receive the gift...
I guess maybe I don't understand how you are disagreeing (if at all).
The OP's conclusion depends on the premise that the parallel is an exact parallel. The verses I quoted show that it was not Paul's intention to create an exact parallel. Therefore, the OP's conclusion is not necessary, and the passage is not so clear-cut as he thinks.
The original post is a clear example of proof-texting: picking a verse that seems to support one's view to the exclusion of the context. It's not surprising that his conclusion is wrong.
Romans 5:15
The Many ( All Men ) Died by the Trespass of the One Man… God’s Grace and the Gift that came by the Grace of the One Man, Jesus Christ, Overflows to The Many ( All Men ).
Why… because where Sin Abounded, Grace did Much More Abound ( Romans 5:20 ) God's Grace More than Meets the Need.
Titus 2:11
For the Grace of God hath appeared, bringing Salvation to All Men.
Going On...
Romans 5: 16
Judgment followed One Sin and Brought Condemnation ( To All Men ) but the Gift Followed Many Trespasses and Brought Justification ( To All Men ).
All Men were Condemned because of Adam’s Sin and All Men will be Justified through the Gift that came by the Grace of the One Man, Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:18
Just as the Result of One Trespass was Condemnation for All Men, so also the Result of One Act of Righteousness was Justification that brings Life for All Men.
Self Explanatory.
Romans 5:19
Through the Disobedience of the One Man, The Many ( All Men ) were Made Sinners… through the Obedience of the One Man, The Many ( All Men ) will be Made Righteous.
Why… because All Men will Receive God’s Abundant Provision of Grace and the Gift of Righteousness since that Gift shall Overflow to the Many ( All Men ) that Died by the Trespass of Adam.
Last edited by Striving4God; 06-17-2010 at 12:16 PM..
Romans 5:15
The Many ( All Men ) Died by the Trespass of the One Man… God’s Grace and the Gift that came by the Grace of the One Man, Jesus Christ, Overflows to The Many ( All Men ).
"All" means "all kinds of," not just "every single one without exception." Once again, the text is not as pat and clear-cut as you'd like to think.
Quote:
Why… because where Sin Abounded, Grace did Much More Abound ( Romans 5:20 ) God's Grace More than Meets the Need.
Yes, but not for all--unless you can prove that the only possible meaning for "all" in the Greek (pantas) is "all without exception."
Quote:
Titus 2:11
For the Grace of God hath appeared, bringing Salvation to All Men.
Same problem as above.
Quote:
Romans 5: 16
Judgment followed One Sin and Brought Condemnation ( To All Men ) but the Gift Followed Many Trespasses and Brought Justification ( To All Men ).
All Men were Condemned because of Adam’s Sin and All Men will be Justified through the Gift that came by the Grace of the One Man, Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:18
Just as the Result of One Trespass was Condemnation for All Men, so also the Result of One Act of Righteousness was Justification that brings Life for All Men.
Self Explanatory.
Actually it isn't--unless you insist that "all" can only mean "all without exception."
So, my earlier post stands: Paul's intention was not to show an exact parallel but to compare and contrast. That means that the effects of Adam's sin do not necessarily have the same scope as the effects of Christ's redemptive work. Limiting the meaning of "pas" to just "all without exception" does not work because it does not fit the concept and ignores the full range of meanings of the word. I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating: You really have to show that "all" has to mean "all without exception" and could not possibly, by any means whatsoever, mean "all kinds of." When you can show that, then you'd be onto something. Until then, you're taking the word "all" and running with it.
"All" means "all kinds of," not just "every single one without exception." Once again, the text is not as pat and clear-cut as you'd like to think.
this exactly how the Jehovah Witnesses' bible renders it:
So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous for life. (Romans 5:18, New World Translation)
this is however not true to the Greek
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