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If we read the Words of Jesus with our soul, our soul will grab hold of the Divine Truths they contain. Such veracity cannot be established by the mere operations of the mind, because, "The natural Man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)
God's Love transforms our souls from its carnal nature. Our new hearts will never cease to beat in the rythm of truth.
I agree with you Trettep
Thank you for your post SisterKat. I love our unbelieving brothers but want us to know WHY we must behave this way which is hard to do in light of loving so earnestly this beloved Gospel our God has given us. It is really FOR them that we behave this way.
Consider for a moment of what goes on in many of these UR vs ET threads. The ETers will hurl argumentative insults towards the glorious gospel of God revolving around the Universal Saving power of God in order to gain a nugget of Truth. Essentially the UR is being baited with a rebellious arrogant attitude and gets rewarded with GOLD in the form of the TRUTHful comments that URs provide. Please cease from this. If a ETer wants the Truth don't reward the combative carnal nature with the Gold such that it gets treated as dung. But rather reward the seeker that desires the Truth with such Gold. Stop pandering to the unbeliever as if they will believe. God must FIRST give the heart. If the heart is not there then don't throw the Truth at a decieved heart. Giving the Truth to such a carnal nature is just to give the carnal nature power.
I hope this is understood. We must love our enemies and those that oppose UR but as brothers knowing that they are just deceived and not givin the heart. Once the heart desires then reveal, that is the sign that God has given a new heart.
In love of my brethren in Christ,
Paul
Paul I know what you are saying, but we really don't know who is hearing and who is not, Ilene is a perfect example of one who at first did everything in her power against UR, yet know is a beleiver in it.
PCamps, can I jump in and throw my 2 cents in this, you know i am not an ETer or URer . . .
You said "The message is believe on the Son of God" . . . this is the most important part of your message, the URers message, and what I believe.
Believe on the Son of God . . . where the differences are as we all know is . . . the part of the UR's belief that it is not necessary to believe in the Son of God to get eternal life . . . but everyone who ever lived, who heard the truth and knowingly made a mental decision to not take up the Cross, they too, will be saved . . .that's the main dividing part and where things get hot here.
The other thing is this . . I think this is good, the constant back and for between us . . . you see, I have learned so much from both sides . . . (yes, there is bickering, yelling, sarcasm thrown in), but for the most part . . . it really provides a very good education in many areas.
Look, Ilene Wright when from staunch ETer to URer . . . and I she seems very peaceful and in a good place with her new belief . . . so alot of good comes from these discussions for people here.
I personally have learned alot about translations, different scriptures, the background and history of the church, certain people in the Bible, scripture I didn't know, and discussions her led me to different bible studies
I probably would have never done.
Lifesigns, if your a true searcher of the Truth and desire it then I want nobody to refuse you the answers to your questions. But my op is only related to those that oppose us URs. If they don't want to hear this message then I'm happy to give them their request for I know that God shall remain opposed to their message and eventually bring them to us in due time.
If you should desire a rational and logical discussion of God's Word then I'm more than happy to throw this Gold towards you Lifesigns.
Paul I know what you are saying, but we really don't know who is hearing and who is not, Ilene is a perfect example of one who at first did everything in her power against UR, yet know is a beleiver in it.
Actually we do pneuma. If we have the heart then we know the heart. Ilene has the heart pneuma. Ilene may not even be aware of how much God is loving her right now but I have been made aware of how much God loves her right now. God knows she is a babe. But she is being led now by that core of this glorious gospel and she delights in it. This is evidenced in her. And that evidence is not of man but of Christ Jesus our Lord. So she is desiring but remember pneuma there is so many here that do NOT desire this wonderful news but rather oppose it. They have not been given the heart. Let them be turned over to Satan for the destruction that is necessary that they may be humbled.
This response of yours Mike reveals so much . The message is believe on the Son of God
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
You see eternal life is who you have believed in and not what you believe (ET or UR)
You are condemning those to an eternity in torment because they do not believe the same as you ?????
No. The message is believe on the Son of God or remain under eternal condemnation. Those who die without Christ condemn themselves because they have rejected Christ.
John 3:18 ''He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''
The Scriptures are clear that those who die without Christ are eternally lost. Only the foolish reject the truth. The foolish distort the Scriptures to their own destruction.
I just want to remind everyone there is not a single scripture that says that anyone that denied Christ presently shall be eternally lost. There is only scriptures that say if your presently denying Christ then you are lost.
Lifesigns, if your a true searcher of the Truth and desire it then I want nobody to refuse you the answers to your questions. But my op is only related to those that oppose us URs. If they don't want to hear this message then I'm happy to give them their request for I know that God shall remain opposed to their message and eventually bring them to us in due time.
If you should desire a rational and logical discussion of God's Word then I'm more than happy to throw this Gold towards you Lifesigns.
Yes Paul, I am a seeker in the truth . . . as I believe you are . . . you say you definitely have the truth . . that all will be saved . . . ALL will inherit eternal life, ALL will spend entirety with Jesus . . . . where I beleive Jesus message throughtout was you must believe in HIM to inherit this.
This is the bone of contention, but wonderful other subjects spin off this, and I've learned to dig deeper into Free Will, Predestination, the Lake of Fire, etc., from these arguments.
Saying this, although I respect everyone's belief . . . to me, it is clear, no matter what translation i pick up . . . that the gospels central theme, that re-occurs throughout is that the belief that only believers in Jesus can have eternal life . . . that is where the most fence post's line up to me in a big way for me . . . yet I also am open, as my truth's yesterday are not the same as today, and if we close are minds in a self-righteous attitude, then there is no spirit in us . . . . Blessings, Lifesigns64
Actually we do pneuma. If we have the heart then we know the heart. Ilene has the heart pneuma. Ilene may not even be aware of how much God is loving her right now but I have been made aware of how much God loves her right now. God knows she is a babe. But she is being led now by that core of this glorious gospel and she delights in it. This is evidenced in her. And that evidence is not of man but of Christ Jesus our Lord. So she is desiring but remember pneuma there is so many here that do NOT desire this wonderful news but rather oppose it. They have not been given the heart. Let them be turned over to Satan for the destruction that is necessary that they may be humbled.
I just want to remind everyone there is not a single scripture that says that anyone that denied Christ presently shall be eternally lost. There is only scriptures that say if your presently denying Christ then you are lost.
To the contrary. There are no second chances after death. Your opportunity to be saved ends at the point of physical death. If you die without Christ, you are eternally lost. As many will find out the hard way. Passages like Revelation 20:11-15, Matthew 25:41, 46, and Matthew 7:21-23 make that abundantly clear. But again, the foolish deny the truth.
I just want to remind everyone there is not a single scripture that says that anyone that denied Christ presently shall be eternally lost. There is only scriptures that say if your presently denying Christ then you are lost.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him
********************
Moderator cut: Deleted - Calling out mods
I say this because the only thing that gets discussed here is universalism, not historical Christianity.
Last edited by june 7th; 06-20-2010 at 10:34 AM..
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