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John 3:15-18 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.
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Perhaps we need to discuss the error or truth of UR in the light of these scriptures.
On the face of it, we see that there are two alternatives given. Eternal life or perishing. I whipped out my handy Merriam Webster dictionary and it said that perish basically means to die. We also see that John 3:36 also gives two alternatives to have life or not see life.
If one believes in Jesus one has life. If one does not believe/rejects one will perish and not see life.
Seems pretty straightforward.
And while I see a lot of scripture that says the choice must be made in this life, I really don’t see any that show we can make the choice after we die. At least after Jesus assended.
Yes, Jesus did preach to the dead, but that was a one time deal prior to His assention. (1Peter 3&4)
And while I see a lot of scripture that says the choice must be made in this life, I really don’t see any that show we can make the choice after we die. At least in the present time.
Where does it say there is a choice to be made? If it is all GOD's work and not of ourselves... is there really ANY Choice to make?
Do you base your theology on opinion or scripture?
I would hope it is on scripture.
The scripture says "whosoever believes"
Period. There is no limitation. To say that after death it is "too late" is to say that "whosoever believes" after death will NOT see life. That contradicts the very scripture you quote.
Tell me this: If someone believes Jesus after death and resurrection and judgment, will they see life? If not the "whosoever believes" will not necessarily see life.
Do you base your theology on opinion or scripture?
I would hope it is on scripture.
I just showed you a straight forward belief of scripture. You do not have to agree with me, but you cannot demonstrate that I have not believed scripture.
Confessing Jesus as Lord is Trustworthy according to scripture.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.
To reject is a choice.
'he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'
YLT renders it that way..and is in keeping with the meaning of the word "apeithōn" which is better rendered as "disobey" or "disbelieve".. even "does not act upon."
I know some posters use this too much but there is some validity to context. Especially in a verse like this where John is speaking to real live people. So to truly see what this verse is saying... one must really understand what THEY thought the wrath of God was.
Furthermore, it seems you are trying to say that someone who is condemned already is in a different state than before and that it equals the wrath of God? How do we know that?
The first passage you quote is Jesus and the second John the baptist. Perhaps they were talking about two different things?
From a Jewish perspective at that time, I believe the wrath of God was punishment to the nation not burning in hell forever.
Condemnation is not burning in hell forever... so I don't see what it is you are proving here.
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