What is more powerful? (God's awesome saving power) (Lutheran, LDS, woman)
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No, he hasn't yet removed EVERYONE's sinful nature. But He will. I force my child not to run into the traffic. I would literally run into and force my child from great harm. That doesn't mean my child is a robot. God is going to force us away from our sinful nature.
I'm sorry, but this isn't going to make sense to me. You say that God will eventually remove everyone's sinful nature, that He is going to force us to do His will. If He does, in fact, force us to do good, then He is turning us into robots. If He takes away our right to choose for ourselves, what's the point of life? Why did He even put us here?
I'm sorry, but this isn't going to make sense to me. You say that God will eventually remove everyone's sinful nature, that He is going to force us to do His will. If He does, in fact, force us to do good, then He is turning us into robots. If He takes away our right to choose for ourselves, what's the point of life? Why did He even put us here?
Agency......right? Doesn't sound like much agency when 99.9999% all go to some level of heaven.
Agency......right? Doesn't sound like much agency when 99.9999% all go to some level of heaven.
Why not? What would be your preferred cut-off? 25% in Heaven and 75% in Hell? Or maybe it wouldn't be acceptable to you unless it was more like 1% in Heaven and 99% in Hell. What possible difference does the percentage make? Agency has virtually nothing to do with percentages.
Why not? What would be your preferred cut-off? 25% in Heaven and 75% in Hell? Or maybe it wouldn't be acceptable to you unless it was more like 1% in Heaven and 99% in Hell. What possible difference does the percentage make? Agency has virtually nothing to do with percentages.
I wasn't who came up with the 99.9999%.
Here's what I prefer.....God's Word, the Bible."only a few find it....few are chosen" . Where the idea that almost the majority makes it to heaven isn't what Jesus revealed.
Matthew 7:13
... For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matthew 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 22:14 "For many are invited,but few are chosen."
The difference is that few is not the majority or the super majority 99.9999%.
Most people will chose to reject Jesus and will be eternally damned because of it. If it turns out to be 1%, that isn't my doing...... "few are chosen".
No agency .....No super majority in heaven. That is against Galatians 1:8-9
Last edited by twin.spin; 08-22-2010 at 03:12 PM..
I asked how any percentage has anything at all to do with free agency. Apparently you're not going to answer my question. Nothing new there.
Quote:
Matthew 7:13
... For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matthew 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 22:14 "For many are invited,but few are chosen."
Only a few will attain Exaltation, the greatest blessing God has promised the faithful. The vast majority will not. Far more of them will end up in Heaven but not actually in God's presence. Many will have to suffer for the thousand year period of Christ's Millennial Reign since they refused to repent of their sins and accept His sacrifice on their behalf. Once they have been punished for their sins, however, there is no need for a just God to continue to punish them forever.
Quote:
No agency ...
No agency? No freedom to choose. How sad. I'm glad I don't believe that.
Romans 10
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
[16] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
It's His will for all to be saved, but they have to want to be saved.
Nobody can give us the desire to be saved but God.
Not true. Rev 21 the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Does god FORCE people into salvation? No, of course not. Jesus himself said of the Jews who chose to reject Him:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37).
The second death is a wonderful thing. It means that God is going to take those vile, murderers, sexually immoral, etc.. and cleanse them of their sinful nature through the lake of fire (which isn't a literal fire).
I'm sorry, but this isn't going to make sense to me. You say that God will eventually remove everyone's sinful nature, that He is going to force us to do His will. If He does, in fact, force us to do good, then He is turning us into robots. If He takes away our right to choose for ourselves, what's the point of life? Why did He even put us here?
If I force my son to do my will, it doesn't mean he is a robot. Everytime you obeyed your parents because you wanted to make them happy, doesn't mean that you were a robot. There is nothing taken away your right to choose. You will just eventually all choose Him.
He put you here to be His Children. He is teaching you about Good and Evil (since He has this knowledge of Good and Evil) and to show you that evil is bad and not to perform the works thereof.
I wasn't who came up with the 99.9999%.
Here's what I prefer.....God's Word, the Bible."only a few find it....few are chosen" . Where the idea that almost the majority makes it to heaven isn't what Jesus revealed.
Matthew 7:13
... For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matthew 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 22:14 "For many are invited,but few are chosen."
The difference is that few is not the majority or the super majority 99.9999%.
Most people will chose to reject Jesus and will be eternally damned because of it. If it turns out to be 1%, that isn't my doing...... "few are chosen".
No agency .....No super majority in heaven. That is against Galatians 1:8-9
You are providing mistranslation. There are "...few finding it". Not to mean there are few that shall EVER find it.
Also, the few chosen are those to be the firstfruits, just as Israel was all to be God's Children but He only chose the Levites to be the chosen tribe to be the priests unto the rest.
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