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Read about what it says about the waster in the Septugient LE and you will see that it says something totally different then what you beleive it says.
It actually reverses the meaning
That is interesting but we can also see what is meant to be destroyed without the debate over what other books of the bible are or are not scripture.
When we read that Satan was to have Simon Peter to sift him as grain, not everyone realizes that sifting grain is a positive thing done to grain to remove the chaff.
In the KJV these scriptures seem to be saying God created the smith that bloweth the coals and the waster to destroy.
16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. 17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Now lets look at the Septuagint for a TOTALLY different view then what the KJV seems to present.
Septuagint
16 Behold, I have created thee, not as the coppersmith blowing coals, and bringing out a vessel fit for work; but I have created thee, not for ruin, that I should destroy thee. 17 I will not suffer any weapon formed against thee to prosper; and every voice that shall rise up against thee for judgment, thou shalt vanquish them all; and thine adversaries shall be condemned thereby. There is an inheritance to them that serve the Lord, and ye shall be righteous before me, saith the Lord.
If like the KJV states that God created the smith and the waster to destroy why does He then say NO weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper?
Surely if God formed these weapons against us they would prevail would they not?
That is interesting but we can also see what is meant to be destroyed without the debate over what other books of the bible are or are not scripture.
When we read that Satan was to have Simon Peter to sift him as grain, not everyone realizes that sifting grain is a positive thing done to grain to remove the chaff.
I don't remember bring up the other books topic in this thread!
If God created the waster as a weapon to destroy, why does that same scripture state no weapon formed against us will prosper?
Surley if God created the waster as a weapon to destroy it would prosper against us.
The whole thing just doesn't make sense. Why does God have us come to Earth to "test our souls?" It just seems unnecessary. Why not just have us live in heaven forever and stop playing this game called life on Earth?
The whole thing just doesn't make sense. Why does God have us come to Earth to "test our souls?" It just seems unnecessary. Why not just have us live in heaven forever and stop playing this game called life on Earth?
God created man from the earth but placed man in the 3rd heaven (the garden) so God did create man to live in heaven, but satan through deciet dragged man into this hell we call life on earth.
The whole thing just doesn't make sense. Why does God have us come to Earth to "test our souls?" It just seems unnecessary. Why not just have us live in heaven forever and stop playing this game called life on Earth?
Hi nep321,
We are not on earth so God can "test our souls", or at least not in the sense I think you are meaning here. God doesn't need to see who is good and who is evil so he can decide who gets to heaven or anything like that. He already knows everything about us.
The reason we are here is for our benefit - not for God's benefit. The reason we are here is for our growth and personal development. This life is a giant classroom in which we are here to experience good and evil so we will learn. We suffer adversity so we will build character. In the end it is all for one reason - so we can learn how to LOVE and learn what LOVE is (God is LOVE). A big part of this is sin - we are learning what it is and how destructive it is - and we know that God sent his son to deliver us all from that sin. Jesus sacrifice was the biggest example of LOVE that can be shown - He gave His life for all mankind. God subjected us all to vanity and futility in hope that we will be released from that bondage (Romans 8:20). He subjects all to disobedience (disobedience is sin) so that He can have mercy on us all (Romans 11:32). Its all His plan so we will learn what we need to learn.
JMHO others see it differently but this makes the most sense to me.
In the KJV these scriptures seem to be saying God created the smith that bloweth the coals and the waster to destroy.
16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. 17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Now lets look at the Septuagint for a TOTALLY different view then what the KJV seems to present.
Septuagint
16 Behold, I have created thee, not as the coppersmith blowing coals, and bringing out a vessel fit for work; but I have created thee, not for ruin, that I should destroy thee. 17 I will not suffer any weapon formed against thee to prosper; and every voice that shall rise up against thee for judgment, thou shalt vanquish them all; and thine adversaries shall be condemned thereby. There is an inheritance to them that serve the Lord, and ye shall be righteous before me, saith the Lord.
If like the KJV states that God created the smith and the waster to destroy why does He then say NO weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper?
Surely if God formed these weapons against us they would prevail would they not?
Let's adopt now the NT enlightenment of crucifying the flesh and insert the cross as the hammer that chisels away the carnal nature.
Again, God loves us but hates the flesh - He will gladly kill the carnal nature in us, for in fact that is the only way to remove it. As darkness engulfs us, we then cry out for Him to remove the parts in us that are subject to the enemy's devices - for what God has done in us is not being affected by that darkness.
We are not on earth so God can "test our souls", or at least not in the sense I think you are meaning here. God doesn't need to see who is good and who is evil so he can decide who gets to heaven or anything like that. He already knows everything about us.
The reason we are here is for our benefit - not for God's benefit. The reason we are here is for our growth and personal development. This life is a giant classroom in which we are here to experience good and evil so we will learn. We suffer adversity so we will build character. In the end it is all for one reason - so we can learn how to LOVE and learn what LOVE is (God is LOVE). A big part of this is sin - we are learning what it is and how destructive it is - and we know that God sent his son to deliver us all from that sin. Jesus sacrifice was the biggest example of LOVE that can be shown - He gave His life for all mankind. God subjected us all to vanity and futility in hope that we will be released from that bondage (Romans 8:20). He subjects all to disobedience (disobedience is sin) so that He can have mercy on us all (Romans 11:32). Its all His plan so we will learn what we need to learn.
JMHO others see it differently but this makes the most sense to me.
lego, that was pretty good. The reason we are here in a nutshell
Let's adopt now the NT enlightenment of crucifying the flesh and insert the cross as the hammer that chisels away the carnal nature.
Again, God loves us but hates the flesh - He will gladly kill the carnal nature in us, for in fact that is the only way to remove it. As darkness engulfs us, we then cry out for Him to remove the parts in us that are subject to the enemy's devices - for what God has done in us is not being affected by that darkness.
LE I do take that into account, reread both sets of scripture again.
KJV says
I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work;
Sept says
I have created thee, not as the coppersmith blowing coals, and bringing out a vessel fit for work;
KJV says
and I have created the waster to destroy
Sept says
but I have created thee, not for ruin, that I should destroy thee.
The KJV IMO makes no sense for if God created the waster as a weapon to destroy our old man then the scripture would not go on to say
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper;
Surely if God created the waster to destroy our old man then that weapon would prosper would it not?
LE I do take that into account, reread both sets of scripture again.
KJV says
I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work;
Sept says
I have created thee, not as the coppersmith blowing coals, and bringing out a vessel fit for work;
KJV says
and I have created the waster to destroy
Sept says
but I have created thee, not for ruin, that I should destroy thee.
The KJV IMO makes no sense for if God created the waster as a weapon to destroy our old man then the scripture would not go on to say
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper;
Surely if God created the waster to destroy our old man then that weapon would prosper would it not?
Right, He's speaking to the "people of God" - an OT type of the nature of Christ. That nature is not destroyed by darkness. See the other scriptures where darkness and fire are used to refine, not that which is whole but that which is in need of refining.
Every creation has a purpose.
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