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You forgot though, the Lie of "Sin" Sin is a creation of man, a myth from long ago, when mankind wanted to transcend his humanity. So he created this myth that he was once God like, and due to sin, is no longer that way. The fact is, there is no such thing as sin. We as Human Beings are Human Beings, which is how we evolved. We are not perfect by our own definition, We do not have perfectly evolved bodies and we don't live perfect lives that are pleaseing even to ourselves and each other. But this is not from some great transgression known as sin; in a pure state, there is no such thing. This is because we as humans with our abilities do the best we can, and someone else somewhere will not be happy abou it. Plain and simple.
What Christendom has done is to degrade people into a low sense of self -worth and to fleece theese followers into a trap which is perpetuated by "sin" which is really just natural human development, and nothing else.
You forgot though, the Lie of "Sin" Sin is a creation of man, a myth from long ago, when mankind wanted to transcend his humanity. So he created this myth that he was once God like, and due to sin, is no longer that way. The fact is, there is no such thing as sin. We as Human Beings are Human Beings, which is how we evolved. We are not perfect by our own definition, We do not have perfectly evolved bodies and we don't live perfect lives that are pleaseing even to ourselves and each other. But this is not from some great transgression known as sin; in a pure state, there is no such thing. This is because we as humans with our abilities do the best we can, and someone else somewhere will not be happy abou it. Plain and simple.
What Christendom has done is to degrade people into a low sense of self -worth and to fleece theese followers into a trap which is perpetuated by "sin" which is really just natural human development, and nothing else.
Why would you want to respond to a thread about Christianity when you're an atheist? Of course you're not going to believe in sin when you don't even believe in God or that the Bible is the word of God. How could one not see all of the sin and evil in this world? Are you living under a rock? The Bible has plenty to say about sin and just how real it is. We didn't evolve, we were created and our Creator warns against the consequences of sin in His Word, the Bible.
You forgot though, the Lie of "Sin" Sin is a creation of man, a myth from long ago, when mankind wanted to transcend his humanity. So he created this myth that he was once God like, and due to sin, is no longer that way. The fact is, there is no such thing as sin. We as Human Beings are Human Beings, which is how we evolved. We are not perfect by our own definition, We do not have perfectly evolved bodies and we don't live perfect lives that are pleaseing even to ourselves and each other. But this is not from some great transgression known as sin; in a pure state, there is no such thing. This is because we as humans with our abilities do the best we can, and someone else somewhere will not be happy abou it. Plain and simple.
What Christendom has done is to degrade people into a low sense of self -worth and to fleece theese followers into a trap which is perpetuated by "sin" which is really just natural human development, and nothing else.
When you go behind the veil into the spirit of darkness and see through the eyes of the Lord Jesus Christ and see the fallen angel spirit that has the authority of the Human beings with out the Lord salvation in the scripture into the Word of God ... Daniel 7: 4..``The first is like a lion and had eagles wings. I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand upon the feet as a man and a man`s heart was given to it.``...................... This fallen angel is not a metaphor, but a manipulator of the sin of the carnal human being , see the eagles wings where plucked off because there was no faith into the Lord God , where if believers wait on the Lord we will mount up with eagle wings a fly with our confidence in faith with the Lord Jesus......
You forgot though, the Lie of "Sin" Sin is a creation of man, a myth from long ago, when mankind wanted to transcend his humanity. So he created this myth that he was once God like, and due to sin, is no longer that way. The fact is, there is no such thing as sin. We as Human Beings are Human Beings, which is how we evolved. We are not perfect by our own definition, We do not have perfectly evolved bodies and we don't live perfect lives that are pleaseing even to ourselves and each other. But this is not from some great transgression known as sin; in a pure state, there is no such thing. This is because we as humans with our abilities do the best we can, and someone else somewhere will not be happy abou it. Plain and simple.
What Christendom has done is to degrade people into a low sense of self -worth and to fleece theese followers into a trap which is perpetuated by "sin" which is really just natural human development, and nothing else.
I follow you here - but it seems your reaction is possibly due to the misuse of the term by fundamentalist preachers?
Biblically "sin" is actually an archery term which means "To miss the target". When someone adopts a goal (such as when an archer adopts the goal to hit the bulls eye) and then misses that target - it can legitimately be called "sin" (AKA: missing the target) if the term is understood correctly.
When you say "We are not perfect by our own definition" you are describing sin perfectly.
To grow and progress (as individuals and as a society) we must have some goal to measure ourselves against and have a way to judge what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior - no?
In general though, I agree with your overall perspective. Most people believe they are doing the 'right' thing, even while shooting themselves (or someone else) in the foot.
I follow you here - but it seems your reaction is possibly due to the misuse of the term by fundamentalist preachers?
Biblically "sin" is actually an archery term which means "To miss the target". When someone adopts a goal (such as when an archer adopts the goal to hit the bulls eye) and then misses that target - it can legitimately be called "sin" (AKA: missing the target) if the term is understood correctly.
When you say "We are not perfect by our own definition" you are describing sin perfectly.
To grow and progress (as individuals and as a society) we must have some goal to measure ourselves against and have a way to judge what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior - no?
In general though, I agree with your overall perspective. Most people believe they are doing the 'right' thing, even while shooting themselves (or someone else) in the foot.
Really, ignorance in the root of all evil.
AISI
THANKS I really appreciate your response and your insight.
I think that as humans, while we have evolved as the higher creatures here on earth (well, maybe not as high as housecats but....) We are not perfect. We still lack a brain that has a proportional cerebral cortex to the size of the adrenal cortex, an evolutionary holdover that instills the flight or fight aspect of animalia; We still have diseases which we can create or aggrevate but cannot cure, and as we age, our bodies wear down. Such is the circle of life on earth. We have a unique power, a power to imagine and create, and this power has many advantages and disadvantages when it is used improperly. And while we don't have the physical strength of a less evolved human species, such as neanderthals, we do have enough imaginitive capacity (which they lacked) to form tools to feed ourselves daily and even enrich our lives with late night internet chat.
Your analogy to an arching missing the target is quite good. If we set our sights on God, the Creator, The Universal Lifeforce, whatever name we call it, it does give us a target. But because it is not human like us, we will ultimately not become like it because we are limited by our humaness. You are right, we will miss the mark, we will call it sin or whatever. But again, this is something created by our ego, our desire to be something more than perfect, hence our judgemental character...
THANKS I really appreciate your response and your insight.
I think that as humans, while we have evolved as the higher creatures here on earth (well, maybe not as high as housecats but....) We are not perfect. We still lack a brain that has a proportional cerebral cortex to the size of the adrenal cortex, an evolutionary holdover that instills the flight or fight aspect of animalia; We still have diseases which we can create or aggrevate but cannot cure, and as we age, our bodies wear down. Such is the circle of life on earth. We have a unique power, a power to imagine and create, and this power has many advantages and disadvantages when it is used improperly. And while we don't have the physical strength of a less evolved human species, such as neanderthals, we do have enough imaginitive capacity (which they lacked) to form tools to feed ourselves daily and even enrich our lives with late night internet chat.
Your analogy to an arching missing the target is quite good. If we set our sights on God, the Creator, The Universal Lifeforce, whatever name we call it, it does give us a target. But because it is not human like us, we will ultimately not become like it because we are limited by our humaness. You are right, we will miss the mark, we will call it sin or whatever. But again, this is something created by our ego, our desire to be something more than perfect, hence our judgemental character...
But Christ made the target, and he is dragging up everybody that fell in Adam to rise with him. For God so LOVED...........
If we set our sights on God, the Creator, The Universal Lifeforce, whatever name we call it, it does give us a target. But because it is not human like us, we will ultimately not become like it because we are limited by our humaness. You are right, we will miss the mark, we will call it sin or whatever. But again, this is something created by our ego, our desire to be something more than perfect, hence our judgemental character...
Indeed, however many if not most Christians believe God is human in Christ. And ultimately it is the struggle within between flesh and spirit, the carnal nature and the spiritual nature, that is represented in Christianity.
Imagination is a part of faith to begin with, as is hope. When we wonder where we came from and what was before the universe was or before time was, as science itself agrees that both the universe and time had a beginning. This innate instinctual predilection to imagine and wonder about a being greater than ourselves, who is responsible for the design which is obvious in all the patterns that exist in nature, is every bit as much a part of us(a part of our humanity) as our animal needs to eat are sleep.
Whether or not you are an atheist or a deist or a theist, whatever you believe now concerning the existence of God or the lack thereof, the very fact that we are discussing it ultimately validates the reality of God. Our imagination is every bit as real as the actual physical world in which we live. As a matter of fact there are many who would claim that the formal world of the imagination is actually more real than this persistent illusion of a world we see all around us. We actually affect the world around us by the power of imagination, and manipulate the course of the development of life on earth thereby.
Can you imagine something that does not exist? Can you imagine a color you have never seen? Sure, in answer to the first question you could say a pink polka doted elephant with wings, but ultimately you are only taking things that do exist and rearranging them in a form or fashion that you have not seen. But all those things exist separately nevertheless so that your imagination can conceive of them to begin with. I believe that when people say that God is only a figment of a persons imagination, they do not truly understand or appreciate what the imagination actually is.
I guess i am digressing, and i don't want to take the thread of topic ... Please forgive my rant.
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-13-2010 at 03:58 PM..
To the contrary. The wages of sin is death and that includes both physical and spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God in time, and if a person dies physically without having believed in Jesus Christ for salvation, that spiritual death continues for all eternity first in Hades and then finally in the lake of fire.
So saith Mike555. Many Christians however, do not believe as he does. This is a barbaric image of God which causes people to act like barbarians.
Heartsong
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How could one not see all of the sin and evil in this world? Are you living under a rock? The Bible has plenty to say about sin and just how real it is. We didn't evolve, we were created and our Creator warns against the consequences of sin in His Word, the Bible.
