Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why don't you consider yourself an atheist? Since you currently have no belief in any god, then by definition, you are an atheist. You are agnostic when it comes to "knowledge" about god (that we can't know), but you are atheist in regards to whether or not you have a belief in god despite "not knowing".
Agnosticism does not address "belief", it addresses "knowledge". On the spectrum of belief there are only 2 choices. You either have a belief in god, or you don't. There is no fence sitting. Let's say someone asked you the question "do you believe in god."? If you cannot answer affirmatively "yes, I believe in god", then you are by definition an atheist in regards to belief. You still can claim that you do not "know" whether or not god exists (agnostic), but you additionally would currently be without a belief in one (atheist). That doesn't mean that you don't think gods are "possible", just that you do not currently actively believe in any particular god. All agnostics either have a belief in god (theist/deist) or they don't (atheist). You don't have to choose to be an atheist, or purposely claim the title of atheist, to be one by definition. Sort of like being bald.....
You make a valid point. But give a former die-hard Christian a break; let me ease the transition by giving myself what feels like a "softer" label for the time being.
You make a valid point. But give a former die-hard Christian a break; let me ease the transition by giving myself what feels like a "softer" label for the time being.
I understand. I am an agnostic atheist myself. I would love to believe in some god, but alas, I cannot since I have not been provided with any convincing evidence to believe in one. I used to designate myself as just an "agnostic" on message boards before I really understood how it differed from atheism/theism. Unfortunately, I cannot come out in public in real life since I live in the Bible Belt and would suffer the repercussions (I know from second-hand experience how atheists are discriminated against here).
However, the "agnostic" label just informs people that you don't think we can have knowledge about god. So? How is that telling us much of anything? We want to know, despite your not having knowledge....do you have a belief in god? This yes or no question at least gives people an idea of where you stand regarding your beliefs.
Question: If atheism is just disbelief in gods, then what is the difference between that and agnosticism?
Response:
...........<snip"......Once it is understood that atheism is merely the absence of belief in any gods, it becomes evident that agnosticism is not, as many assume, a “third way” between atheism and theism. The presence of a belief in a god and the absence of a belief in a god exhaust all of the possibilities. Agnosticism is not about belief in god but about knowledge — it was coined originally to describe the position of a person who could not claim to know for sure if any gods exist or not.
Thus, it is clear that agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism. On the other hand, a person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism. .....<snip>...........
Why don't you consider yourself an atheist? Since you currently have no belief in any god, then by definition, you are an atheist. You are agnostic when it comes to "knowledge" about god (that we can't know), but you are atheist in regards to whether or not you have a belief in god despite "not knowing".
Agnosticism does not address "belief", it addresses "knowledge". On the spectrum of belief there are only 2 choices. You either have a belief in god, or you don't. There is no fence sitting. Let's say someone asked you the question "do you believe in god."? If you cannot answer affirmatively "yes, I believe in god", then you are by definition an atheist in regards to belief. You still can claim that you do not "know" whether or not god exists (agnostic), but you additionally would currently be without a belief in one (atheist). That doesn't mean that you don't think gods are "possible", just that you do not currently actively believe in any particular god. All agnostics either have a belief in god (theist/deist) or they don't (atheist). You don't have to choose to be an atheist, or purposely claim the title of atheist, to be one by definition. Sort of like being bald.....
I love how you borke it down, but for [some] Christians, as long as you do NOT believe in THEIR god, you're at atheist.
I love how you borke it down, but for [some] Christians, as long as you do NOT believe in THEIR god, you're at atheist.
Thanks! I think most christians understand that god-believers of other religions are not atheists. Maybe you're thinking of the word: "pagan"? Even though pagans are a religious group of their own, christians have used the label to refer to anyone who is is not a christian whether atheists, or believers of other religions
Pagan:
–noun
1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
3. an irreligious or hedonistic person.
No you misunderstand my point, God know what we will do, right or wrong, and He conveys these things to His prophets who then write them down within the Bible. It doesnt mean it is Gods will that we do wrong but it is His will that we be warned so we can avoid such wrong doing. This is what is meant by properly dividing the word. He did not make you an atheist you did.
It is at least an equal probability that the bible may be wrong, and the good atheists are trying to get this through to you. Mythology costs more money than does atheism.
So neither of you would accept an illness or a visit from a Christian as a slap up side the head? What about a death of someone close to you would that be enough? What about the loss of everything you own? Loss of mobility? There are many ways God reaches out to you and in this world we are so complacient that we do not see Gods hand in anything while Christians see Gods hand in everything.
Bad things happen to all people, good to bad and everyone in between, sometime random, sometimes aided by the stupidity of the person, or merely wrong place/wrong time, etc. etc.
No gods involved.
But let's expand your view, which I'll interpret as 'god dun it' then 'what a jerk to give me cancer or set my house on fire.'
Bad things happen to all people, good to bad and everyone in between, sometime random, sometimes aided by the stupidity of the person, or merely wrong place/wrong time, etc. etc.
No gods involved.
But let's expand your view, which I'll interpret as 'god dun it' then 'what a jerk to give me cancer or set my house on fire.'
That’s the "mysterious ways" bit.
I read (somewhere) that god was invented to help man cope with death. The thought of nothing after life was/is too much for a man to contemplate and this thought gave the feelings of hopelessness. To me when you die that’s the end, POOF you’re gone! That is sad, it saddens me when I do think of it but ironically, that’s life.
I would call it other things, but my honest opinion about it would certainly run afoul of the 'truth is not welcome here' unwritten rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCincorrect
I read (somewhere) that god was invented to help man cope with death. The thought of nothing after life was/is too much for a man to contemplate and this thought gave the feelings of hopelessness. To me when you die that’s the end, POOF you’re gone! That is sad, it saddens me when I do think of it but ironically, that’s life.
Clearly that is the purpose of religion, how miserable to spend your life preparing for death, but it is a choice they make.
Robin, I think there are many people who are "lost" in this world, many of whom believe in God, including many, many Christians. Hopefully you have more to offer those people than a set of doctrines they must believe in order to not be damned to hell by a god who supposedly loves them.
You are right there are many who are lost and dont even realize it including christians. The only doctrines I have for any is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and to study the Bible to make yourself prepared as the Lord commands. God doesnt want anyone to be damned to hell but He actually gives us all choices to make in this life and we must pay for our choices good or bad.
Bad things happen to all people, good to bad and everyone in between, sometime random, sometimes aided by the stupidity of the person, or merely wrong place/wrong time, etc. etc.
No gods involved.
But let's expand your view, which I'll interpret as 'god dun it' then 'what a jerk to give me cancer or set my house on fire.'
Yes bad things happen to all people but it is what you do with these lessons that make you what you are. God did not give anyone cancer but what did they or others do to irratate the genes that are cancerous. As for the house burning down what steps should or could you have taken to prevent the fire and what have you learned about yourself and others due to the fire.
God is involved and He is waiting for you and others to make the right or wrong choices. He is there willing to help, maybe not like you want but like He intended.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think most christians understand that god-believers of other religions are not atheists. Maybe you're thinking of the word: "pagan"? Even though pagans are a religious group of their own, christians have used the label to refer to anyone who is is not a christian whether atheists, or believers of other religions
