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Nope...not according to God's Word. I'll stick with God.
If you are disagreeing with what i posted above, then you are believing and teaching that the disobedience of Adam had a greater affect on creation and on all people, then the obedience of Christ has. You are saying that the effects of the disobedience and sin of Adam abound more throughout creation than does the obedience and righteousness of Christ and the grace of God in Christ ... But the scriptures teach the opposite.
Rom 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
You teach the opposite. You teach that where grace abounds, sin does much more abound.
First of all, before I go any further, I want you to know Ironmaw, that I do not reply here for you...just the way God's Word gets twisted, torn apart, shreaded and defiled...it just rubs me like sandpaper...but I am in no way shocked or surprised at your inability to correctly comprehend/interpret God's truth.
This reply is for those out there who earnestly seek the heart of God's will for their lives, the truth...you go ahead and complete your mission on this earth Ironmaw...but I will set the record straight for those who really want to know the truth.
Let me begin by saying that Paul is specifically speaking to to the Church of God at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints! The testimony of Christ is confirmed within them...they are brethren!...It is these, the true, believing, faithful, obedient Christians who did not die in their sin, but lived a clean, blameless life in the righteousness of Christ whom will have their works judged at the Great White Throne of Judgement, and whatever they built upon the Foundation, the ONLY! Foundation - Jesus Christ, if it was anything other than anything that glorified God through Christ Jesus, it will burn!...and there will be judgement and their inheritance (rewards) will be lost forever, but they will still see their salvation.
As sure as I live and breath, anyone who dies in their sins, who did not receive Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior, and did not live their life in the Spirit of Christ...faithful and obedient to the commands of God, will stand naked and ashamed before our King and will not go to His right to be with Him for all eternity, they will be directed to His left...He never knew you...It is written!!! Thus saith the LORD God Almighty!
So!...now that we've cleared that up, let me clear this up as well...
Some build upon this Foundation gold, silver, and precious stones (v. 12), namely, those who receive and spread the pure truths of the gospel, who hold nothing but the truth as it is in Jesus, and preach nothing else. This is building well upon a good foundation, making all of apiece, when ministers not only depend upon Christ as the great prophet of the church, and take him for their guide and infallible teacher, but receive and spread the doctrines he taught, in their purity, without any corrupt mixtures, without adding or diminishing.
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Others build wood, hay, and stubble, on this foundation; that is, though they adhere to the foundation, they depart from the mind of Christ in many particulars, substitute their own fancies and inventions in the room of his doctrines and institutions, and build upon the good foundation what will not abide the test when the day of trial shall come, and the fire must make it manifest, as wood, hay, and stubble, will not bear the trial by fire, but must be consumed in it. There is a time coming when a discovery will be made of what men have built on this foundation: Every man's work shall be made manifest, shall be laid open to view, to his own view and that of others. Keep in mind...this judgement of works is for saints only...those who died in Christ Jesus...who lived a life in the will of the Father...faithful, believing, obedient Christians...brethren!
So you are saying that the works of wood hay and stubble are false teachings. If someone is teaching a false doctrine, then they are deceived and are teaching a lie.
If a person is born again and never sins, then why are they deceived and teaching false doctrines? How is it that the spirit of God which has quickened them, so that they no longer sin, is not able to teach them true doctrines?
The scriptures teach that God sends great delusion to people who love a lie more than the truth. How can someone who you believe to be born again and thus who never sins love a lie more than the truth so that they are deceived by a strong delusion and thus teach false doctrines?
You are not making any sense what soever ... Your own words contradict your teachings, that is to say you are contradicting yourself, and you cant even see it.
Quote:
Now that we understand that you do not have the correct understanding of the passage above, this is absolutely i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-e. Literally.
Uh....nope. That is a lie from the pit of hell.
All men are invited to come to God through this all-sufficient atonement, and by this new and living way. The gospel, when rightly understood and received, sets the heart against all sin, and stops the allowed practice of it; at the same time it gives blessed relief to the wounded consciences of those who have sinned.
Yes, Jesus is our Advocate, while here on earth, after we have received Jesus into our hearts, while we are growing, learning, and maturing into a true faithful, obedient, born-again Christian. Only then. Not after you die in your sins and you find yourself standing before Jesus our King and Righteous Judge...nope...no way. Your time to get right with God in an intimate relationship with Him has passed.
You need to understand that the Bible, God's Word, is speaking/teaching/warning believers. Understanding this will help you greatly in your understanding of Scripture.
God Bless you.
In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
First of all, i believe that it is you who do not have a correct understanding of the scriptures which i posted(though at least i can admit i might be wrong, as i have been wrong before. though you are unable and unwilling to admot that you might be wrong, even though you say you were wrong before in the way you used to believe), and you prove it by the obvious contradictions I see in your own teachings.
And John said, "if we(born again Christian) sin", we have an advocate in Christ before God.
You already said you don't believe that Christ is an advocate for those who are not yet born again and saved. So John cannot be referring to those who are not born again, when he says "if we sin", according to your own teachings. When John says if we sin, he is referring to the born again believers, and not to those who are not born again. You simply cannot see how you are contradicting not only the scriptures themselves, but you are also contradicting yourself, and it is painfully obvious to any honest person who has an education in Christian theology.
What you are teaching is a contradiction rapped in an oxymoron ... And a lie from the evil imaginations of the traditions of arrogant and proud men who believe themselves to be righteous when in fact they are the greatest sinners of all, because their sin is a sin of the heart against God, saying that they are worthy of salvation.
The proud shall be abased. The humble shall be glorified. I am like the publican, and i admit that i am a sinner before God, and i pray for mercy, and so according to Christ i am justified. You on the other hand are like the pharisees who prays and gives thanks to God because you believe you are not like other people who are sinners, and you boast of you personal righteousness, and so according to Christ you are not yet justified, but needs must first be abased before you can be justified by the righteousness of Christ.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-24-2010 at 12:56 AM..
So you are saying that the works of wood hay and stubble are false teachings. If someone is teaching a false doctrine, then they are deceived and are teaching a lie.
If a person is born again and never sins, then why are they deceived and teaching false doctrines? How is it that the spirit of God which has quickened them, so that they no longer sin, is not able to teach them true doctrines?
The scriptures teach that God sends great delusion to people who love a lie more than the truth. How can someone who you believe to be born again and thus who never sins love a lie more than the truth so that they are deceived by a strong delusion and thus teach false doctrines?
You are not making any sense what soever ... Your own words contradict your teachings, that is to say you are contradicting yourself, and you cant even see it.
First of all, i believe that it is you who do not have a correct understanding of the scriptures which i posted(though at least i can admit i might be wrong, as i have been wrong before. though you are unable and unwilling to admot that you might be wrong, even though you say you were wrong before in the way you used to believe), and you prove it by the obvious contradictions I see in your own teachings.
And John said, "if we(born again Christian) sin", we have an advocate in Christ before God.
You already said you don't believe that Christ is an advocate for those who are not yet born again and saved. So John cannot be referring to those who are not born again, when he says "if we sin", according to your own teachings. When John says if we sin, he is referring to the born again believers, and not to those who are not born again. You simply cannot see how you are contradicting not only the scriptures themselves, but you are also contradicting yourself, and it is painfully obvious to any honest person who has an education in Christian theology.
What you are teaching is a contradiction rapped in an oxymoron ... And a lie from the evil imaginations of the traditions of arrogant and proud men who believe themselves to be righteous when in fact they are the greatest sinners of all, because their sin is a sin of the heart against God, saying that they are worthy of salvation.
The proud shall be abased. The humble shall be glorified. I am like the publican, and i admit that i am a sinner before God, and i pray for mercy, and so according to Christ i am justified. You on the other hand are like the pharisees who prays and gives thanks to God because you believe you are not like other people who are sinners, and you boast of you personal righteousness, and so according to Christ you are not yet justified, but needs must first be abased before you can be justified by the righteousness of Christ.
I've said all I need to say at this point Ironmaw. Nothing more need be added...my pearls have been cast...so go on and do what you do...complete your mission at hand.
If you are disagreeing with what i posted above, then you are believing and teaching that the disobedience of Adam had a greater affect on creation and on all people, then the obedience of Christ has. You are saying that the effects of the disobedience and sin of Adam abound more throughout creation than does the obedience and righteousness of Christ and the grace of God in Christ ... But the scriptures teach the opposite.
Rom 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
You teach the opposite. You teach that where grace abounds, sin does much more abound.
This is true for, I think, almost 100% of Christendom.
Another backwards belief: "God loves us, because we love Him." --????
brian, you agree with Ironmaw, but not with the truth of God's Word, your choice...both of you...and that is very unfortunate, for you and all who believe the lie that all will somehow see their salvation even if they die in their sin. That is a lie from the very pit of hell.
(Brown Bolded by Verna)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shal many be made righteous."
How many people were made sinners by the disobedience of Adam? All people ...
How many people will be made righteous by the obedience of Christ? The same amount of people who were made sinners by the disobedience of Adam. That is to say, all people.
This is a lie from the pit of hell.
By whose obedience are all people made righteous?
YOUR OWN!!!! Stop trying to steal Jesus' obedience, and instead get your own! Walk as He walked!!! Do as He did!!! And people are not righteous Ironmaw, it is the righteousness OF CHRIST! that is imputed INTO! one who walks as Christ walked...in OBEDIENCE!
Is it by the obedience of all people that all people are made righteous? Nope ...
BUT YOU JUST! SAID ABOVE: (AND I QUOTE!!!) "How many people will be made righteous by the obedience of Christ? The same amount of people who were made sinners by the obedience of Adam. That is to say, all people." You are so confused Ironmaw...you have nowhere to go from here, everyone can see you speak from both side of your mouth...God's truth is not to be found in your words.
Read it again ... it is by the obedience of Christ that all people will be made righteous.
Nope! It is not! No it is not! It is YOUR! responsibility to act accordingly to the will of God for your OWN! life! Not Christ's!
Peace ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
Nope...not according to God's Word. I'll stick with God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
If you are disagreeing with what i posted above, then you are believing and teaching that the disobedience of Adam had a greater affect on creation and on all people, then the obedience of Christ has. You are saying that the effects of the disobedience and sin of Adam abound more throughout creation than does the obedience and righteousness of Christ and the grace of God in Christ ... But the scriptures teach the opposite.
Nope, I am not saying any such of a thing! Your misunderstanding of the truth of God's Word leaves you without a clue of what I am saying. The truth is veiled from you Ironmaw.
Rom 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
For the saint...for the believing, faithful to God's Word, obedient saint. Not for the willfull sinner who dies in their sin.
You teach the opposite. You teach that where grace abounds, sin does much more abound.
No I do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
This is true for, I think, almost 100% of Christendom.
Another backwards belief: "God loves us, because we love Him." --????
Peace,
brian
...go on with your mission at hand brian, right along with Ironmaw. I have said all that need be said...the truth, and it only need be repeated 500 times, then it is enough...........but I can see I'll most surely repeat it at least 1000 more times before I draw my last breath!...and I will too! Praise be to God on high!!!!
God Bless you.
In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
brian, you agree with Ironmaw, but not with the truth of God's Word, your choice...both of you...and that is very unfortunate, for you and all who believe the lie that all will somehow see their salvation even if they die in their sin. That is a lie from the very pit of hell.
The problem is that when some here, including you Verna, are disagreed with you cannot actually defend your position, but rather, assert that if someone disagrees with you, they are not actually disagreeing with you, but with God.
That is nothing but religious trickery that you have retained from your days in the institution but it is not a statement that actually declares any truth.
It actually detracts from your own ability to consider and learn, because you have basically declared that you know it all with out actually having to say it.
Pauls life defies your very objection, Paul admitted sin was within him, he died in his sins, knowing full well that trying to say that your sins are "mistakes" doesn't change a thing. It is the convoluted approach to scripture where people try to define, this law and that law as important and not important and defining sins as "mistakes" vs "willful" that people must engage in when they see their error but are too prideful to admit it.
The problem is that when some here, including you Verna, are disagreed with you cannot actually defend your position, but rather, assert that if someone disagrees with you, they are not actually disagreeing with you, but with God.
That is nothing but religious trickery that you have retained from your days in the institution but it is not a statement that actually declares any truth.
It actually detracts from your own ability to consider and learn, because you have basically declared that you know it all with out actually having to say it.
Pauls life defies your very objection, Paul admitted sin was within him, he died in his sins, knowing full well that trying to say that your sins are "mistakes" doesn't change a thing. It is the convoluted approach to scripture where people try to define, this law and that law as important and not important and defining sins as "mistakes" vs "willful" that people must engage in when they see their error but are too prideful to admit it.
I dare say, that even without a Bible to confuse and blind us, God will have His way with us!! Praise God!!
Blessings!
brian
Ps. Verna, why are you so angry??
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Good to have you back!
I dare say, that even without a Bible to confuse and blind us, God will have His way with us!! Praise God!!
