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This topic was started a while back. It led to such an interesting discussion. I posted the following, but the discussion was already underway between members, and the points I made were overlooked. I'm very interested in knowing how Christians view my question, so I thought I'd restart the thread. I welcome all who are curious to read the following and respond from your heart.
________________________
Thank you to the OP for posting this question. I am so interested in this topic! You are correct in saying that the whole world over, there are all these different holy books, each of which the people believe to be God's word.
Many ancient traditions speak of a man (not Jesus) who was born of a virgin on December 25th, who had 12 followers (apostles), who was crucified or otherwise killed, who rose again. These traditions pre-date Jesus.
For the ardent Christian folks in the room (I myself am more spiritual than religious), may I ask you a question? See if you feel this fits in with the God you know.
I have heard expressed a belief in "The Ascended Masters and Teachers." In essence, this belief states that throughout time, and all over the world, God has sent messengers to speak to man, over and over and over again. Some of these "Ascended Masters and Teachers" were "God," as Jesus was God, and others were God's messengers, not immortal, but on a higher plane than the common man. Some have said that even individuals like Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi and Mother Theresa could be said to fit into this idea of the "Ascended Masters and Teachers," each representing an occasion that God sent a messenger on this earth to speak to people on God's behalf.
Christ arrived in the Middle East 2000 years ago, and spoke to the people of that place, at that time.
Other religions state that Krishna arrived, that Mohammed came, that the Yellow Emperor came, that Buddha (Siddharta) came, that Imhotep came, etc. You travel to another area on the earth, you hear of another such occurrence, and another such man (or woman). Usually the way that individual was viewed, is almost identical to the way Jesus' followers viewed Him--albeit the differences may rest in language, culture, and ethnicity.
I was raised a Christian, and I still feel very strongly about the Christian teachings. But I find the beauty, strength, and truth--and most importantly, I find God--as I research and learn more about what other cultures believe.
Finally my question: Do you believe it's possible that God might have sent various messengers/prophets to speak with certain people at certain times, the whole world over? In other words, Jesus Christ did not appear to people in the far East; He did not speak with and appear to people in North America, or in Europe.
But people have appeared to, lived with, and taught, individuals in North America, Far East Asia, Africa, Australia, etc.
God in His infinite wisdom could see the various types of cultures, ideas, and beliefs that had taken root in this world.
Is it not possible that he sent individuals who could speak to that particular culture's "style"? After all, Jesus was a Jew, spoke like a Jew, was indeed called "Rabbi" by His followers, dressed in Jewish dress and spoke in the native tongue of the area.
Buddha spoke the native tongue of his people, wore clothing familiar to them, discussed topics already near to their hearts. The style was directed to what was innate to them.
Lao Tse was unique to China, he spoke in their language, he discussed issues that pertained to their way of viewing the world. They highlight enlightenment over prayerful victory over sin, for instance, so meditation is valued.
Each of these figures was quite tailored to the styles, culture, habitat, religious mindset, of the area in which they appeared and lived.
Is it possible that God wanted to see to it that each part of the earth was touched by Him, that He sent messengers to each area on earth to ensure his message was felt by all?
Certainly God, in His infinite wisdom, would "see" and "Know" that Jesus' style would have been foreign to those living in China; perhaps the Yellow Emperor, Lao Tse, and others who appeared in that land, were simply directed by God to "Be Chinese" for lack of a better expression; perhaps the intention was to ensure that the Chinese had a representative too, one whom they could relate to.
Previous to the advent of the modern media, would it have been easy for individuals in Japan to know God's word? Or in central Australia? Or in Tribal Africa? Perhaps God did not want the world to have to wait to find Jesus . . .perhaps he saw to it that people had "their own Jesus" in each area on earth, so that a message of love and brotherly communion could be heard before the advent of the modern media would spread the word of Jesus in particular.
Please know I mean no offense to any ardent Christian. This to me does not contradict Jesus's importance.
Instead it uplifts it.
It shows that God, in His infinite powers, wisdom, and presence, can do whatsoever is needed to ensure that ALL His children feel His presence and hear His message.
What do you all think?
Is it strictly forbidden for a Christian to entertain the thought that "other Jesuses" visited this earth, each able to reach the hearts and minds of "those people" in particular? Does it necessarily violate your belief in Jesus as God's son to think God may have sent others to other areas, at other points in time?
Thank you for considering this, and peace to each one of you,
Light1111
>>Finally my question: Do you believe it's possible that God might have sent various messengers/prophets to speak with certain people at certain times, the whole world over? In other words, Jesus Christ did not appear to people in the far East; He did not speak with and appear to people in North America, or in Europe.
But people have appeared to, lived with, and taught, individuals in North America, Far East Asia, Africa, Australia, etc.<<
RESPONSE:
Then whatever faith you adhere to is determined by your place of birth or choice and are equally valid. Is that your point?
Yes, I suppose so. I was asking the believers in the room if they feel it is in violation of their specific belief systems to acknowledge that people the world over found "their version" of a Jesus, in someone who came from a place of light and love, and led the people closer to God. It's clear that there are thousands of such examples, and that for those people who do follow those examples, they are following God. I was just asking the room if that fits into your idea of God, or if it is the exclusive privilege of a Christian to feel and to know God through Jesus. Whether instead you believe that perhaps there are many paths to God, as evidenced by the many belief systems that exist in our world (many of which far predate Christianity and even predate the Judeo-Christian-Muslem belief systems). The Judeo-Christian-Muslem beliefs are even quite new, compared with many other beliefs.
I feel respect for the various belief systems, and wondered whether such respect could be attained by considering the worldwide prevalence of belief in God, while specifics might vary. I tend to believe that the specifics aren't as important as the underlying message . . love.
Yes, I suppose so. I was asking the believers in the room if they feel it is in violation of their specific belief systems to acknowledge that people the world over found "their version" of a Jesus, in someone who came from a place of light and love, and led the people closer to God. It's clear that there are thousands of such examples, and that for those people who do follow those examples, they are following God. I was just asking the room if that fits into your idea of God, or if it is the exclusive privilege of a Christian to feel and to know God through Jesus. Whether instead you believe that perhaps there are many paths to God, as evidenced by the many belief systems that exist in our world (many of which far predate Christianity and even predate the Judeo-Christian-Muslem belief systems). The Judeo-Christian-Muslem beliefs are even quite new, compared with many other beliefs.
I feel respect for the various belief systems, and wondered whether such respect could be attained by considering the worldwide prevalence of belief in God, while specifics might vary. I tend to believe that the specifics aren't as important as the underlying message . . love.
RESPONSE:
While what you say is probably quite true, I assume you realize that many organized religions consider outsiders to be infidels who are condemned to hell.
Curiously, while this was the traditional position of the Catholic Church, the Council of Vatican II reversed this teaching accepting the salvation of all people of good will who honestly were seeking God. Of course, even within Catholicism, many believe such a view is heretical.
Thanks for that response. And I'm heartened to hear the turn-over in Catholic doctrine.
It's hard for me to understand how a God-loving person could believe all individuals who devote themselves to a "different God" would be doomed to hell. Few faiths (other than Christianity) believe their way to be the only way.
This topic was started a while back. It led to such an interesting discussion. I posted the following, but the discussion was already underway between members, and the points I made were overlooked. I'm very interested in knowing how Christians view my question, so I thought I'd restart the thread. I welcome all who are curious to read the following and respond from your heart.
________________________
Thank you to the OP for posting this question. I am so interested in this topic! You are correct in saying that the whole world over, there are all these different holy books, each of which the people believe to be God's word.
Many ancient traditions speak of a man (not Jesus) who was born of a virgin on December 25th, who had 12 followers (apostles), who was crucified or otherwise killed, who rose again. These traditions pre-date Jesus.
Most of those so-called similarities are greatly exaggerated by those who wish to discredit the Bible. The Bible doesn't give the date of Jesus' birth.
Quote:
For the ardent Christian folks in the room (I myself am more spiritual than religious), may I ask you a question? See if you feel this fits in with the God you know.
I have heard expressed a belief in "The Ascended Masters and Teachers." In essence, this belief states that throughout time, and all over the world, God has sent messengers to speak to man, over and over and over again. Some of these "Ascended Masters and Teachers" were "God," as Jesus was God, and others were God's messengers, not immortal, but on a higher plane than the common man. Some have said that even individuals like Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi and Mother Theresa could be said to fit into this idea of the "Ascended Masters and Teachers," each representing an occasion that God sent a messenger on this earth to speak to people on God's behalf.
There are no ascended masters. And there is but one God of whom Jesus is the Second Person in the Godhead.
In the history of the human race, God has communicated with man directly, through prophets, angels, dreams, visions, and when He came into the world - through Jesus Christ who since the incarnation, is the unique Person of the universe - undimished deity and true humanity in one Person. Now at this period of human history, God communicates only through His written word which the Holy Spirit makes perspicacious to the believer.
Quote:
Christ arrived in the Middle East 2000 years ago, and spoke to the people of that place, at that time.
Other religions state that Krishna arrived, that Mohammed came, that the Yellow Emperor came, that Buddha (Siddharta) came, that Imhotep came, etc. You travel to another area on the earth, you hear of another such occurrence, and another such man (or woman). Usually the way that individual was viewed, is almost identical to the way Jesus' followers viewed Him--albeit the differences may rest in language, culture, and ethnicity.
I was raised a Christian, and I still feel very strongly about the Christian teachings. But I find the beauty, strength, and truth--and most importantly, I find God--as I research and learn more about what other cultures believe.
Finally my question: Do you believe it's possible that God might have sent various messengers/prophets to speak with certain people at certain times, the whole world over? In other words, Jesus Christ did not appear to people in the far East; He did not speak with and appear to people in North America, or in Europe.
But people have appeared to, lived with, and taught, individuals in North America, Far East Asia, Africa, Australia, etc.
God in His infinite wisdom could see the various types of cultures, ideas, and beliefs that had taken root in this world.
Is it not possible that he sent individuals who could speak to that particular culture's "style"? After all, Jesus was a Jew, spoke like a Jew, was indeed called "Rabbi" by His followers, dressed in Jewish dress and spoke in the native tongue of the area.
Buddha spoke the native tongue of his people, wore clothing familiar to them, discussed topics already near to their hearts. The style was directed to what was innate to them.
Lao Tse was unique to China, he spoke in their language, he discussed issues that pertained to their way of viewing the world. They highlight enlightenment over prayerful victory over sin, for instance, so meditation is valued.
Each of these figures was quite tailored to the styles, culture, habitat, religious mindset, of the area in which they appeared and lived.
Is it possible that God wanted to see to it that each part of the earth was touched by Him, that He sent messengers to each area on earth to ensure his message was felt by all?
Certainly God, in His infinite wisdom, would "see" and "Know" that Jesus' style would have been foreign to those living in China; perhaps the Yellow Emperor, Lao Tse, and others who appeared in that land, were simply directed by God to "Be Chinese" for lack of a better expression; perhaps the intention was to ensure that the Chinese had a representative too, one whom they could relate to.
Previous to the advent of the modern media, would it have been easy for individuals in Japan to know God's word? Or in central Australia? Or in Tribal Africa? Perhaps God did not want the world to have to wait to find Jesus . . .perhaps he saw to it that people had "their own Jesus" in each area on earth, so that a message of love and brotherly communion could be heard before the advent of the modern media would spread the word of Jesus in particular.
Please know I mean no offense to any ardent Christian. This to me does not contradict Jesus's importance.
Instead it uplifts it.
It shows that God, in His infinite powers, wisdom, and presence, can do whatsoever is needed to ensure that ALL His children feel His presence and hear His message.
What do you all think?
Is it strictly forbidden for a Christian to entertain the thought that "other Jesuses" visited this earth, each able to reach the hearts and minds of "those people" in particular? Does it necessarily violate your belief in Jesus as God's son to think God may have sent others to other areas, at other points in time?
Thank you for considering this, and peace to each one of you,
Light1111
There is but one Jesus Christ. And salvation is through Him alone.
Acts 4:12 ''And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved.''
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, ''I am the way the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.
You said that you were raised as a Christian. But you didn't say that you believe what the Bible teaches. If you do believe that the Bible is the word of God, and it is, then you have to believe the two passages given above.
Religion, whether it is Buddhism or Taoism, or Islam, or whatever it is, is the invention of Satan for the purpose of confusing the issue regarding salvation.
All those people you mentioned, unless they received Jesus as their Savior before they died, are in Torments in Hades today, and will be cast into and spend eternity in the lake of fire.
This topic was started a while back. It led to such an interesting discussion. I posted the following, but the discussion was already underway between members, and the points I made were overlooked. I'm very interested in knowing how Christians view my question, so I thought I'd restart the thread. I welcome all who are curious to read the following and respond from your heart.
________________________
Thank you to the OP for posting this question. I am so interested in this topic! You are correct in saying that the whole world over, there are all these different holy books, each of which the people believe to be God's word.
Many ancient traditions speak of a man (not Jesus) who was born of a virgin on December 25th, who had 12 followers (apostles), who was crucified or otherwise killed, who rose again. These traditions pre-date Jesus.
For the ardent Christian folks in the room (I myself am more spiritual than religious), may I ask you a question? See if you feel this fits in with the God you know.
I have heard expressed a belief in "The Ascended Masters and Teachers." In essence, this belief states that throughout time, and all over the world, God has sent messengers to speak to man, over and over and over again. Some of these "Ascended Masters and Teachers" were "God," as Jesus was God, and others were God's messengers, not immortal, but on a higher plane than the common man. Some have said that even individuals like Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi and Mother Theresa could be said to fit into this idea of the "Ascended Masters and Teachers," each representing an occasion that God sent a messenger on this earth to speak to people on God's behalf.
Christ arrived in the Middle East 2000 years ago, and spoke to the people of that place, at that time.
Other religions state that Krishna arrived, that Mohammed came, that the Yellow Emperor came, that Buddha (Siddharta) came, that Imhotep came, etc. You travel to another area on the earth, you hear of another such occurrence, and another such man (or woman). Usually the way that individual was viewed, is almost identical to the way Jesus' followers viewed Him--albeit the differences may rest in language, culture, and ethnicity.
I was raised a Christian, and I still feel very strongly about the Christian teachings. But I find the beauty, strength, and truth--and most importantly, I find God--as I research and learn more about what other cultures believe.
Finally my question: Do you believe it's possible that God might have sent various messengers/prophets to speak with certain people at certain times, the whole world over? In other words, Jesus Christ did not appear to people in the far East; He did not speak with and appear to people in North America, or in Europe.
But people have appeared to, lived with, and taught, individuals in North America, Far East Asia, Africa, Australia, etc.
God in His infinite wisdom could see the various types of cultures, ideas, and beliefs that had taken root in this world.
Is it not possible that he sent individuals who could speak to that particular culture's "style"? After all, Jesus was a Jew, spoke like a Jew, was indeed called "Rabbi" by His followers, dressed in Jewish dress and spoke in the native tongue of the area.
Buddha spoke the native tongue of his people, wore clothing familiar to them, discussed topics already near to their hearts. The style was directed to what was innate to them.
Lao Tse was unique to China, he spoke in their language, he discussed issues that pertained to their way of viewing the world. They highlight enlightenment over prayerful victory over sin, for instance, so meditation is valued.
Each of these figures was quite tailored to the styles, culture, habitat, religious mindset, of the area in which they appeared and lived.
Is it possible that God wanted to see to it that each part of the earth was touched by Him, that He sent messengers to each area on earth to ensure his message was felt by all?
Certainly God, in His infinite wisdom, would "see" and "Know" that Jesus' style would have been foreign to those living in China; perhaps the Yellow Emperor, Lao Tse, and others who appeared in that land, were simply directed by God to "Be Chinese" for lack of a better expression; perhaps the intention was to ensure that the Chinese had a representative too, one whom they could relate to.
Previous to the advent of the modern media, would it have been easy for individuals in Japan to know God's word? Or in central Australia? Or in Tribal Africa? Perhaps God did not want the world to have to wait to find Jesus . . .perhaps he saw to it that people had "their own Jesus" in each area on earth, so that a message of love and brotherly communion could be heard before the advent of the modern media would spread the word of Jesus in particular.
Please know I mean no offense to any ardent Christian. This to me does not contradict Jesus's importance.
Instead it uplifts it.
It shows that God, in His infinite powers, wisdom, and presence, can do whatsoever is needed to ensure that ALL His children feel His presence and hear His message.
What do you all think?
Is it strictly forbidden for a Christian to entertain the thought that "other Jesuses" visited this earth, each able to reach the hearts and minds of "those people" in particular? Does it necessarily violate your belief in Jesus as God's son to think God may have sent others to other areas, at other points in time?
Thank you for considering this, and peace to each one of you,
Light1111
I like what you are saying and yes, I believe that God appoints individuals to teach the world about love and the number of individuals can be infinate. I don't believe He limits Himself to just one religion since God is not religioius. God is for all humanity and He wants the world to know love. Love is who we are, not our religions.
Of course, there will be those fundamentalist who think they know what God wants but each religion does hold truths about God. Each one is based, like you said, on their culture and heritage. No one will be left out of the Kingdom when we find the Love that we are. That was Jesus' message then as it is now and all other "holy men" who bring the same message. It's never about the messenger. It's the message that's important.
It matters not who delivers it, as long as it's delivered.
>>You said that you were raised as a Christian. But you didn't say that you believe what the Bible teaches. If you do believe that the Bible is the word of God, and it is, then you have to believe the two passages given above. <<
RESPONSE:
Why should one believe that the Bible is exclusively the word of God? Because it says so? So does the Koran.
The world's major religions have a number of Holy Books to choose from.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 09-27-2010 at 08:19 AM..
Reason: typo
I like what you are saying and yes, I believe that God appoints individuals to teach the world about love and the number of individuals can be infinate. I don't believe He limits Himself to just one religion since God is not religioius. God is for all humanity and He wants the world to know love. Love is who we are, not our religions.
Of course, there will be those fundamentalist who think they know what God wants but each religion does hold truths about God. Each one is based, like you said, on their culture and heritage. No one will be left out of the Kingdom when we find the Love that we are. That was Jesus' message then as it is now and all other "holy men" who bring the same message. It's never about the messenger. It's the message that's important.
It matters not who delivers it, as long as it's delivered.
Thanks Reverend! I especially liked that last line, and I agree with you!
Sometimes we even see instances in the secular world, of preserving the specific messenger instead of the message itself.
I was enrolled in a program for Oriental Medicine for one year. The program itself lasted four. I chose to leave the program for a number of reasons, uppermost being that I didn't want to incur all that debt! But another reason was that I was having a hard time learning Chinese. Not just the language itself (we weren't expected to become fluent, but were required to learn a great many terms in Mandarin), but also the concepts.
The program presents the Chinese theory and treatment of the human body. This includes, but is not limited to, the meridian system, acupuncture and its many uses, herbology, etc.
The trouble is, if this medicine is useful (and I know that it is, as I have successfully been treated using it), then it is not necessary to use the Chinese languages in describing it. It is simply the language in which the theories were originally written.
Certainly I would like to separately learn a bit about Chinese culture, beliefs, and history, to gain perspective around how their theories came to be developed. And we did undertake such coursework!
But if what they discovered was in fact true and useful, could we not change the language they use to our own?
I found that the program was as much about Chinese as it was about medicine, and it made all the memorization required of me that much more difficult to handle. It would have been hard enough if it were all in English!!
In this instance, the program's directors were clinging to the messenger instead of the message. Perhaps it is easier to see that this is unnecessary when it is secular, and no one's particular faith feels threatened. But I do believe that all important messages can exist independent of who spoke them--and that God is at the root of all of it.
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