Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am simply stating the absolute word of God. Though you think your arguement is with me, you are in fact arguing with God. And as I told another on this thread, homosexuality is a sin before, during, and after the law. The law was given only to Israel. Not to the Gentiles, and not to the Church. But sin is sin forever, and homosexuality is a sin. God does not change.
Culture has nothing to do with it. The only thing that matters is what God says about it.
And with regard to your comment concerning heterosexual sex, OUTSIDE of marriage, it is indeed a sin.
You try hard to justify homosexuality, but God has made it clear that homosexuality is a sin.
Actually you are stating your interpretation of the absolute word of God. If it was definitely the word of God, there would not be different translations, interpretations etc. and there certainly wouldn't have been so many edits and changes over the years.
The only topic of this thread is homosexuality. And the broken record says once again, that the word of God declares homosexuality to be a sin. It's just that simple.
Absolutely true Mike! It is very simple to anyone who truly believes the Bible is the Word of God, God has made it VERY clear homosexuality is a sin, people can try to justify it all they want, but it does not change what God said about it.
Absolutely true Mike! It is very simple to anyone who truly believes the Bible is the Word of God, God has made it VERY clear homosexuality is a sin, people can try to justify it all they want, but it does not change what God said about it.
Why did God make so many words that have different meanings and translations?
The Greek words "malakoi" and "arsenokoites" were never used to refer to homosexuals in contemporaneous secular Greek texts. If Paul had meant homosexuals, there were other Greek words he could have used to make it clear that's what he meant. But he didn't.
The main body of my response below was in response to another post quoted below where you say the same thing as the post above and much more besides. You can click on it and go there. Am I to conclude facts are irrelevant when it comes to your attempt to make others to believe as you do? This sort of thing over and over is why I seldom anymore go through answering posts that are full of, well, "lies" are what I've called them for years. I hope so good a word is not on some blacklist for censoring since it conveys the idea very well. As I say, you can click on the spot with the quotation box and see the earlier reference for yourself, then come to your own conclusions. Does the truth mean anything here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
Neither of the Koine Greek words "malakoi" or "arsenokoitai" was ever used to mean "homosexual" until some translator decided to interpret it that way in the 1950's. There were Greek words in the 1st century Paul could have used if he meant "homosexuals" - but he didn't.
Greek malakon means SOFT and is ideally rendered either "catamite" or "effeminate." It would seem it can be used for a male that dresses and behaves like a female suggested also by its use by Jesus. Explaining what John the Baptist was He pointed out that the people had not come out in the wilderness to see someone who wore "SOFT garments" because such live in king's palaces. (Mt 11:8; Lk 7:25) Malakon is a special term for a male used for unnatural purposes and is so used by Theophylact, Dionysius, Hallicarnassus, Plutarct, etc. It is joined with arsenokoites in 1 Co 6:9
Greek arsenokoites means MALE-LIer, reflecting somewhat on the Hebrew euphemism "a man lies with another man as with a woman." Arsen is MALE and koites is about the same word we use today, "coitus." It is perhaps ideally rendered "sodomite," but is also very accurately "homosexual."
So many people should be honest and recognize they pursue whatever way their lusts lead them rather than exercising self-discipline. They have no real interest to learn what Scripture says. "A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself." (Pv 18:2, AV)
and I add here...
1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Concordant Literal Translation:
9 Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; no revilers, no extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom.
11 And some of you were these, but you are bathed off, but you are hallowed, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.
The main body of my response below was in response to another post quoted below where you say the same thing as the post above and much more besides. You can click on it and go there. Am I to conclude facts are irrelevant when it comes to your attempt to make others to believe as you do? This sort of thing over and over is why I seldom anymore go through answering posts that are full of, well, "lies" are what I've called them for years. I hope so good a word is not on some blacklist for censoring since it conveys the idea very well. As I say, you can click on the spot with the quotation box and see the earlier reference for yourself, then come to your own conclusions. Does the truth mean anything here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde
Greek malakon means SOFT and is ideally rendered either "catamite" or "effeminate." It would seem it can be used for a male that dresses and behaves like a female suggested also by its use by Jesus. Explaining what John the Baptist was He pointed out that the people had not come out in the wilderness to see someone who wore "SOFT garments" because such live in king's palaces. (Mt 11:8; Lk 7:25) Malakon is a special term for a male used for unnatural purposes and is so used by Theophylact, Dionysius, Hallicarnassus, Plutarct, etc. It is joined with arsenokoites in 1 Co 6:9
Greek arsenokoites means MALE-LIer, reflecting somewhat on the Hebrew euphemism "a man lies with another man as with a woman." Arsen is MALE and koites is about the same word we use today, "coitus." It is perhaps ideally rendered "sodomite," but is also very accurately "homosexual."
So many people should be honest and recognize they pursue whatever way their lusts lead them rather than exercising self-discipline. They have no real interest to learn what Scripture says. "A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself." (Pv 18:2, AV)
and I add here...
1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Concordant Literal Translation:
9 Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; no revilers, no extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom.
11 And some of you were these, but you are bathed off, but you are hallowed, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.
And like I said before... I disagree with your "opinions". You might want to be a little careful flinging words like "lies" around when you can't backup your own opinions. I ask again for your sources, which you declined to give last time. Especially for your claim about the word "malakon" being a word used to describe a male used for unnatural purposes, or "ideally" a catamite or "effeminate".
The Koine Greek word used by Paul was malakoi, (the singular is malakos) not malakon" like you claim. Where did you find that word?
"Malakos" and “malakoi” was used to describe a number of different things relating to "soft" - lazy, indolent, richly dressed, cowardly, morally weak, effeminate, even masturbator etc. A catamite could be described in that manner, but that doesn't mean the word means catamite. You’re on shaky ground making that claim considering how often the word was used where it meant something entirely different.
Moreover, the changes in translation of malakos provide an even clearer record of how interpretive decisions have changed due to historical shifts in the ideology of sexuality.
Early English translations render malakos by terms that denote a general weakness of character or degeneracy, usually "weaklinges" (Tyndale 1534, Coverdale 1535, Cranmer 1539; see also Wyclif 1380, "lechouris ayens kynde," and Geneva Bible 1557, "wantons"). From the end of the sixteenth century to the twentieth, the preferred translation was "effeminate" (Douai-Rheims 1582, KJV 1611, ASV 1901). As was the case with arsenokoites, however, a curious shift takes place in the mid-twentieth century.
For Epictetus and the Cynic Epistles, the term refers to men who take life easy rather than enduring the hardships of philosophy.24
In Dio Cassius, Plutarch, and Josephus, cowards are malakoi.25
Throughout ancient literature, malakoi are men who live lives of decadence and luxury.26 They drink too much wine, have too much sex, love gourmet food, and hire professional cooks.
According to Josephus, a man may be accused of malakia if he is weak in battle, enjoys luxury, or is reluctant to commit suicide (War 7.338; Antiquities 5.246; 10.194).
Dio Chrysostom says that the common crowd might stupidly call a man malakos just because he studies a lot —that is, a bookworm might be called a sissy (66.25)
Quote:
In fact, malakos more often referred to men who prettied themselves up to further their heterosexual exploits
Today’s “metrosexual” heterosexual men could be called “malakoi” for example.
As for “arsenokoites”, any translation that still uses the word "sodomites" for "arsenokoites" is completely unsupported.
For example, the KJV translators incorrectly used the word “sodomite” when translating the Hebrew word “qadesh” in Deuteronomy 23:17 and other verses. This has now been corrected to “male temple prostitute” or male shrine prostitute” in most English translations.
Basing the meaning of a word on it’s components alone rather than it’s context and use, is problematic and simplistic. For example, the word “ladykiller” does not mean someone who kills ladies or a lady who is a killer. Similarly a more modern slang word “manwh.ore", does not mean a man who is a prostitute, but is slang used to describe a man who has sex with a lot of women. A "player".
You claim that this word means homosexuals, yet you also claim it’s a male word. So how do female homosexuals fit in to your claim? They don’t.
You might want to look at how the word was used in other Greek manuscripts where it is obvious it doesn’t mean “homosexuals”.
Sibylline Oracle:
Quote:
Do not steal seeds. Whoever takes for himself is accursed (to generations of generations, to the scattering of life.
Do not arsenokoitein, do not betray information, do not murder.) Give one who has labored his wage. Do not oppress a poor man. Take heed of your speech. Keep a secret matter in your heart. (Make provision for orphans and widows and those in need.)
Do not be willing to act unjustly, and therefore do not give leave to one who is acting unjustly.
I am simply stating the absolute word of God. Though you think your arguement is with me, you are in fact arguing with God. And as I told another on this thread, homosexuality is a sin before, during, and after the law. The law was given only to Israel. Not to the Gentiles, and not to the Church. But sin is sin forever, and homosexuality is a sin. God does not change.
Culture has nothing to do with it. The only thing that matters is what God says about it.
And with regard to your comment concerning heterosexual sex, OUTSIDE of marriage, it is indeed a sin.
You try hard to justify homosexuality, but God has made it clear that homosexuality is a sin.
Pointless trying to reason with someone who just can't fathom that understanding the historical cultural references is absolutely necessary in translating ancient texts with any degree of accuracy.
People who state they know the "absolute word of God" are a worry.
Why did God make so many words that have different meanings and translations?
I think some people just don't stop to think that the particular english version they have is only one of many translations and that some of the interpretations can be quite different depending on the beliefs/values/biases of the translators and those who commissioned them. Or perhaps some people think the Bible was written in modern english? American English that is.
I may have missed it but how else is this, that Mike posted, to be interpreted?
Romans 1:26] For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural 27] and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men commiting indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. Leviticus 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination
Really? That's your take on it? What are you saying "so many people" are claiming - that they are gay but don't have same sex desires (AKA: lust)?
BTW - everyone is lead by their lusts - even Jesus.
And the Spirit!
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh".
It's not a bad word you know - it just means to want or desire something. To long for.
Anyway - you are not addressing gayness in that statement at all, you are addressing lack of self discipline.
But discipline myself as I might - I still ended up longing for and marrying a woman. Dang lust!!!
Apparently being gay is only about "lust" and "sex" to some of these people. They don't seem to be able to acknowledge that so many gay people love and commit to long term relationships, and are often raising children.
With a long term female partner, 3 teenage daughters, a full time job counselling dysfunctional heterosexual families so they can learn how not to neglect and abuse their children and themselves with domestic violence, drugs and alcohol, criminal behaviour etc, I hardly have time to indulge in "lust"....
Last edited by Ceist; 10-04-2010 at 07:55 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
