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You are quick to call me names. There is no need for insults and/or judgment.
I am certainly not adding when I quote John 3:16, but if you suggest that you are saved by simply avoiding judging others, then you subtracting some 99.99% of the Bible. You display wanton disregard of the scriptures.
Nothing you do, or don't do is going to save you. Only Christ can save you.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Christ died to save us from sin and death, and he accomplished that for all people. But he did not die to save all people from judgment. The wages of sin is death, not judgment ... Judgment is passed for the purpose of announcing the necessary penalties for people which will eventually reconcile and reform the people on whom those penalties are placed. Judgment is a good thing, not a bad thing, though it is good that we should escape it by learning to forgive and show mercy here an now ...
Christ died to save us from sin and death, and he accomplished that for all people. But he did not die to save all people from judgment. The wages of sin is death, not judgment ... Judgment is passed for the purpose of announcing the necessary penalties for people which will eventually reconcile and reform the people on whom those penalties are placed. Judgment is a good thing, not a bad thing, though it is good that we should escape it by learning to forgive and show mercy here an now ...
According to your opening post, a person will not be judged at all if he/she avoids the sin of judging other people. However, I think you know that is not true.
Unlikely, a mythological beastie does not lie. The liars would be those who create them for their own purposes, let's see.....10% from hundreds of millions of people = a whole lot of reasons for them to lie.
According to your opening post, a person will not be judged at all if he/she avoids the sin of judging other people. However, I think you know that is not true.
No, i do not think it is not true ... I believe it is true. But unfortunately we are all sinners and we all judge one another at some point(myself included).
So we will all be judged, but we will not all be condemned. Not everyone who judges condemns ... And not everyone who is judged will be condemned.
Like i said, judgment is not a bad thing when it comes from God, we are all salted by fire ... God chastises all those whom he loves, and he loves everyone, and everyone needs chastisement/correction.
But even though we all judge because we are all sinners and we all have moments of weakness, we can still forgive those whom we have judged(and forgive ourselves) and show them mercy. And then when we are judged we will be forgiven and shown mercy as well ...
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-28-2010 at 11:22 AM..
In the above passage, Christ plainly teaches that if a person does not judge others, then that person will not be judged, and if a person does not condemn others, then they will not be condemned. He teaches the if a person forgives others trespasses, then they will be forgiven their trespasses as well ...
But many Christians teach another gospel, adding to the words of Christ. They say that forgiving others is not enough, and having mercy is not enough. They teach that even if a person does not judge or condemn others, that is not enough to keep that person from being judged and condemned to everlasting misery and torments.
When you say 'Christians say it is not enough'. Enough for what? Obviously you are saying that these works are enough for something, but what are they enough for?
What is your reward for doing these works? You say that if you do these works, then you will not be judged, but the Bible says that a person can have eternal life only if he believes in Christ (John 3:16). Unbelievers, no matter how many good works they have under their belts, are destined for the lake of fire. The Bible says that the rightous works of unrighteous people are like dirty rags in eyes of God.
Revelation 21 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
When you say 'Christians say it is not enough'. Enough for what? Obviously you are saying that these works are enough for something, but what are they enough for?
What is your reward for doing these works? You say that if you do these works, then you will not be judged, but the Bible says that a person can have eternal life only if he believes in Christ (John 3:16). Unbelievers, no matter how many good works they have under their belts, are destined for the lake of fire. The Bible says that the rightous works of unrighteous people are like dirty rags in eyes of God.
Revelation 21 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Fin Jarber, are you reading my answers? Please read my last post to you and respond to it, and then i will respond in kind.
The Bible says in the book of ST. John "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God... and nothing was made that HE did not make.." "The Word became flesh and dwelt among men..." The Word is not subject to the assessments of the created, but rather the created is subject to the Word- who Created all things. Therefore, no man has the power to make Jesus, the Christ, the Anointed one a liar by what they say or do. The Bible says "Let every man be a liar, but the Word is true." "Jesus is the way, the TRUTH..." "Heaven and earth will pass away, but the Word, the Truth will stand." Man has no authority over the Word, that is to say Christ, but is under the authority of the Word. NO Christian, nor any man can make God less than HE IS!!!!
Fin Jarber, are you reading my answers? Please read my last post to you and respond to it, and then i will respond in kind.
Yes, I am reading your posts, but it does not answer the question I asked. I quoted your own words, so I am just trying to get to the bottom of your beliefs.
Yes, I am reading your posts, but it does not answer the question I asked. I quoted your own words, so I am just trying to get to the bottom of your beliefs.
I believe i did answer your question, but perhaps you just did not understand my answer.
Christ Died for sin, to save us from the wages of sin which is Death. Death is not judgment, as judgment is specifically for the purpose of correction, and death does not correct anything.
That is to say that the purpose of Gods judgments is to teach righteousness ...
If a person lived all their lives without ever judging anyone, they themselves would never require judgment from God, though they would still require the work of Christ on the cross to save them from the wages of sin which is death.
However because we are all weak and we all sin, we naturally have an inclination to judge others ... So we will all be judged. But those who learn to temper their judgment with mercy and forgiveness will be forgiven and shown mercy when they are judged by God, because they have already learned the value of mercy and forgiveness.
Someone who has not learned the value of mercy and forgiveness and therefore does not show mercy and forgiveness when they judge others will not themselves receive mercy or forgiveness when they are judged by God. They will receive the full measure of Gods wrath, and then they will come to understand what mercy and forgiveness is, because of how much they will desire it for themselves.
That is what it means when it is written that we shall be judged in the manner that we judge others.
Now to make certain i leave no room for misunderstanding, i will add again that just because someone is not shown mercy or forgiveness when they are judged does not mean that the judgment which God hands down on them will have an eternal penalty, or will cause them to be punished eternally, because the purpose of Gods judgments is to teach righteousness.
If a person is judged by God and that person never learns righteousness, then the judgment of God on that person is futile and in vain. Nothing that God does is futile or in vain. So even those that are judged without mercy and forgiveness will eventually come to learn righteousness by the judgment of God, though it will be much harder on them than if they had learned and shown mercy and forgiveness to those whom they themselves judge.
If a person lived all their lives without ever judging anyone, they themselves would never require judgment from God, though they would still require the work of Christ on the cross to save them from the wages of sin which is death.
Even if they were unbelieving Christ-hating thieves and murderers?
So, you do think that judgementalism is the only sin that requires God's judgment?
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
I already told you what the verse means IMO, so I won't repeat it here.
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