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Dear Verna Isaiah 65 verse 5 says "Stand by thyself come not near to me,for i am holier than thou. These are smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all day"
If you truely believe that God hates sinners , this same hate is going to reflect in your life , we are what we believe.
You will not only be able to approach those you consider God hates , but you will also be unapproachable to by those you consider God hates.Do you also not realize that even if you had the capacity to love sinners by the love of God, you would be working against the God you believe in who hates sinners.
You can disguise this hatefulness for sinners with such comments as "in his love" and the ability to cite scripture at the drop of a hat , but all it is is a disguise .
Verna i was involved in a close knit fellowship in the past that bordered on what you believe (apart from the sabbath stuff you believe), my flesh(old man) took a continual bashing from what was being ministered (which i ignorantly believed was the Lord) , i actually became what i thought was the truth , a miserable low down no good sinner , then the Lord opened my eyes to show me what i was hearing was a "ministry of death", i was set free by His love and grace , and by how He saw me in Christ.I shared this in the last meeting i attended at this fellowship , it was rejected , i was threatened with all the usual stuff "God's out to get me" , i was even rejected by my own brother in the flesh who attended the same fellowship ,but Praise be to God , i went to visit him in his little fabric shop a couple of months later, and He knew in an instance that the Grace of God was on my life , and that was the beginning of him and his wife being set free from that group too.
These people are awful!..with signs that say: "God loves the IED!" and all that crap!
I love and support our troops...and God loves them too!!!...I honor them and their families for their precious sacrifice for our freedoms...and so does God!!!...and I abhore these people who ruin what should be a peaceful, solemn day for the families of their dead loved ones...their last "good-by" to them...what these people do to those families breaks my heart, and I want to strangle them for doing so...I would NEVER! be amongst them or anyone like them!
In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth...always!
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
...in MY Book, it's as different as night and day...
I preach the Word of God...and this is what He says in MY Book...
"For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee...THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY." (Psalms 5:4-5).
"...But The wicked and him that loveth violence HIS SOUL HATETH." (Psalms 11:5).
"The face of the LORD is against them that do evil..." (Psalms 34:16)
Please note that the face of the Lord is not against what evil one does, it is against the one who does evil. So much for "God loves the sinner...". The fact is that God hates both the wicked and their sins.
Verna, you are totally confusing me, and probably other readers out there.
On the one hand you sayGod loves our troops, and on the other hand you are saying So much for "God loves the sinner...".
Come on, you are speaking confusion here. You are speaking out of "both sides" of your mouth... ie. you are speaking contradictions.
Are our troops sinners?
Does God love our troops?
Does God love sinners?
Please Verna, examine honestly what you are saying, or clarify it for me.
Verna, you are totally confusing me, and probably other readers out there.
On the one hand you sayGod loves our troops, and on the other hand you are saying So much for "God loves the sinner...".
Come on, you are speaking confusion here. You are speaking out of "both sides" of your mouth... ie. you are speaking contradictions.
Are our troops sinners?
Does God love our troops?
Does God love sinners?
Please Verna, examine honestly what you are saying, or clarify it for me.
It is impossible to clarify anything to you ironmaw when it comes to the Word of God.
...and yes, I've known for a long time that you are confused.
I know exactly what I am saying...God knows the heart of every human being and whether or not they live in His will...and they (the troops) being in a war for our freedoms as a nation does not keep them all from the love of God just because they ARE in a war. I bet there are troops who actually live for, and keep the commands of God while in a war for our nation...God knows who they are...He'll be the judge. Not you and not me.
It is impossible to clarify anything to you ironmaw when it comes to the Word of God.
...and yes, I've known for a long time that you are confused.
I know exactly what I am saying...God knows the heart of every human being and whether or not they live in His will...and they (the troops) being in a war for our freedoms as a nation does not keep them all from the love of God just because they ARE in a war. I bet there are troops who actually live for, and keep the commands of God while in a war for our nation...God knows who they are...He'll be the judge. Not you and not me.
Verna, I'm legoman, not ironmaw.
I'm not getting into about what our troops are doing is right or not. That is not the point.
But effectively what you are saying is that God does love people but He doesn't love sinners. This makes me scratch my head. We are all sinners Verna. You are a sinner Verna. Do you realize that?
Its like pcamps has been saying simply: God loved us while we were still sinners.That is scripture Verna. Do you believe that scripture?
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
There you have it. A scripture that says God loves sinners.
Now you will go back to Psalm 5 and say that God hates workers of iniquity. But here is a thought. Is it possible the old testament was under a veil, and David (or the author of Psalms) was not quite correct, or was misinterpreting the spirit of those words?
Matt 5:43 You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies
Why do you think Jesus had to say this? This contradicts what you are saying and what David was saying in the Psalms. Jesus was clarifying what was meant by those words in the psalms.
God does hate workers of iniquity. That is true. But what is a "worker of iniquity". Is it the whole person? Or is it the "old man" - the "carnal self"? Within us there is a part that always wants to sin. For some it is more dominant than others. The old man will die Verna. And what is left is the new creation.
This is how you harmonize "God hates sinners" with "God loves sinners".
You have to take it in context - you have to take the bible as a whole - you have to understand the veil the writers of the old testament were under. God is revealing things slowly. The old testament writers did not have the new testament for additional understanding and interpretation.
Jesus had to clarify it when He came. You have heard it said 'hate your enemy' but I tell you 'love your enemy'.
I hope you consider this thoughtfully and prayerfully.
This thread is the PERFECT example of the contradictory nature of those in the Christian camp. Those who proudly proclaim the odious passages in the Old Testament with apparent glee and those who either ignore them, spiritualize them into insignificance or re-interpret them beyond recognition to make them more palatable. If the Bible says that god's souls HATES the sinner (well, it is clearly the "INSPIRED" writer's warped interpretation of his god), I guess it means what it says, no?
No, this thread is a PERFECT example that not everyone posting here is not a Christian.
No, this thread is a PERFECT example that not everyone posting here is not a Christian.
Amen..... it is quite obvious the Spirit of God is not in the midst of all this !!
Galatians 5:19-26
19. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20. idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21. envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23. gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.
...in MY Book, it's as different as night and day...
I preach the Word of God...and this is what He says in MY Book...
"For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee...THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY." (Psalms 5:4-5).
"...But The wicked and him that loveth violence HIS SOUL HATETH." (Psalms 11:5).
"The face of the LORD is against them that do evil..." (Psalms 34:16)
Please note that the face of the Lord is not against what evil one does, it is against the one who does evil. So much for "God loves the sinner...". The fact is that God hates both the wicked and their sins.
Verna - My bible reads the same as yours , but I think we need to look at those verses in the light of scripture to remember who the sinner (the worker of iniquity) is. We need to go back to Genesis to see the sinners true and original identity:
Gen 1:26 And God saith, `Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.'
It is that image of God, that distinct part of man that God loves. And that first identity of man has never ceased to be. Paul tells us that sinful man is, as yet, still the image and glory of God:
1Co 11:7 for a man, indeed, ought not to cover the head, being the image and glory of God, and a woman is the glory of a man,
So, how do we understand all those verses that speak of God hating the sinner, or rather God hating that which works iniquity within the sinner? Paul tells us here:
Rom 7:5 for when we were in the flesh, the passions of the sins, that are through the law, were working in our members, to bear fruit to the death;
Now notice, it is called the flesh and it's passions that are doing the work within the sinner's members. And what exactly are these passions working in the sinner? Paul tells us here:
Gal 5:19 And manifest also are the works of the flesh, which are: Adultery, whoredom, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, strifes, emulations, wraths, rivalries, dissensions, sects,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revellings, and such like, of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that those doing such things the reign of God shall not inherit.
It is that nature of the sinner, the flesh, that we are to understand that God hates (Psa 5:5, 11:5, Pro 6:16, etc.).
However, the created image of man, THE VERY IMAGE and GLORY OF GOD, God loves (Jon 3:16). This first identity of man has never ceased to be. Neither has God's good will towards man:
Luk 2:14 `Glory in the highest to God, and upon earthpeace, among men--good will.'
Rom 5:8 and God doth commend His own love to us, that, in our being still sinners, Christ did die for us;
Tit 3:4 and when the kindness and the love to men of God our Saviour did appear
1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God in us, because His Son--the only begotten--hath God sent to the world, that we may live through him;
1Jn 4:10 in this is the love, not that we loved God, but that He did love us, and did send His Son a propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:19 we--we love him, because He--He first loved us;
Do you see how God can love man, whom He created in His Own image, and yet hate man's sinful nature, the flesh?
And do you still believe that God will eternally destroy someone whom He created in His Own image and that He loves? And that He will do so after having freely justified them in Jesus' blood, by grace?
Rom 3:24 being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 5:9 much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his blood, we shall be saved through him from the wrath;
If the sinner continues to procrastinate, he/she will eventually be cut off; the sinner will see a different side of God. God's love will turn to hate. God's spirit will not always strive with man. God has commanded all to repent.
Acts 17
[30] And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
[31] Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man [Jesus] whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
I don't think God hates anything and no one..We are so quick to want to give God human thoughts, when He told us that his thoughts thoughts are not ours...
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We are all sinners Verna. You are a sinner Verna. Do you realize that?
!!
