Does God Love the Sinner and Hate the Sin? (hell, priests, sinners)
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If the sinner continues to procrastinate, he/she will eventually be cut off; the sinner will see a different side of God. God's love will turn to hate. God's spirit will not always strive with man. God has commanded all to repent.
Acts 17
[30] And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
[31] Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man [Jesus] whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
The assurance given to sinners is life my friend, not condemnation. All sinners have been declared righteous (justified) in Christ's death, and it is God Himself who has testified to it (past tense) in Jesus' resurrection. Look here:
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.
That is the Good News of the Gospel, and that is what all sinners are commanded to know and believe . It is also what we are commended to teach:
1Ti 4:10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men--especially of those believing.
1Ti 4:11 Charge these things, and teach;
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 10-18-2010 at 11:01 AM..
Reason: Added reference
I don't think God hates anything and no one..We are so quick to want to give God human thoughts, when He told us that his thoughts thoughts are not ours...
Actually, we are so quick to ignore scripture that says otherwise.
There will be no salvation, mercy but anger for those who don't believe the true God.
Isaiah 42 (selected verses)
"I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,...
"I am the LORD; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another
or my praise to idols.....
But those who trust in idols,
who say to images, 'You are our gods,' will be turned back in utter shame....
"Hear, you deaf;
look, you blind, and see!....
You have seen many things,but have paid no attention; your ears are open, but you hear nothing." ....
So he poured out on them his burning anger, the violence of war. It enveloped them in flames, yet they did not understand; it consumed them, but they did not take it to heart.
I'm not getting into about what our troops are doing is right or not. That is not the point.
But effectively what you are saying is that God does love people but He doesn't love sinners. This makes me scratch my head. We are all sinners Verna. You are a sinner Verna. Do you realize that?
Yes. I've stated such a thousand times at least. However, some sinners are "repentant" sinners...some sinners are "regenerated" sinners...some sinners are "sanctified" sinners...some sinners are now faithful saints...and some sinners are still just sinners living in their sin...no change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Its like pcamps has been saying simply: God loved us while we were still sinners.That is scripture Verna. Do you believe that scripture?
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
God demonstrated His love for us in this: while we were still sinners, living in our sin and enjoying it, He gave His only Son for us, in that we all would have the same opportunity!...the same chance!...given the same ability! to receive Jesus' sacrifice and believe in His Words, and be changed and live as Jesus lived....holy and blameless.
[quote=legoman]There you have it. A scripture that says God loves sinners.[/quote]
...no..there you do not have it at all. He loved us enough to give His Son so that MAYBE! He (God) and us (who live in His will) could have a relationship with one another...He has NO! relationship with willfull sinners who love their sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Now you will go back to Psalm 5 and say that God hates workers of iniquity. But here is a thought. Is it possible the old testament was under a veil, and David (or the author of Psalms) was not quite correct, or was misinterpreting the spirit of those words?
I am not interested in YOUR thoughts legoman...therein lies the problem!...your thoughts on the subject...just let the Scriptures speak for themselves. No! it is not possible...not one bit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Matt 5:43 You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Why do you think Jesus had to say this? This contradicts what you are saying and what David was saying in the Psalms. Jesus was clarifying what was meant by those words in the psalms.
We are to love our enemies...and it does not contradict a single thing...only in your "thoughts" it does...it's in YOUR own mind...and it is wrong. God Word does NOT contradict Himself...EVER!
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
God does hate workers of iniquity. That is true. But what is a "worker of iniquity". Is it the whole person? Or is it the "old man" - the "carnal self"? Within us there is a part that always wants to sin. For some it is more dominant than others. The old man will die Verna. And what is left is the new creation.
If you die filthy you will remian filthy...if you die wicked...you will remain wicked...who you die as...that is who you will remain to be for eternity...and filth and wickedness will not enter into the Kingdom of God. Period...no matter how you try to spin it. <<<Scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
This is how you harmonize "God hates sinners" with "God loves sinners".
You have to take it in context - you have to take the bible as a whole - you have to understand the veil the writers of the old testament were under. God is revealing things slowly. The old testament writers did not have the new testament for additional understanding and interpretation.
Jesus had to clarify it when He came. You have heard it said 'hate your enemy' but I tell you 'love your enemy'.
I hope you consider this thoughtfully and prayerfully.
Legoman
I do understand Scripture very well legoman...in context...and I consider all God has to say in scripture thoughtfully and prayerfully.
In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
I don't think God hates anything and no one..We are so quick to want to give God human thoughts, when He told us that his thoughts thoughts are not ours...
Amen! The refusal to educate themselves about the origin of our negative human emotions (in our psychological weaknesses) is what enables them to continue to wrongly assign such weaknesses to our loving God. It is natural for humans to hate, be envious or jealous or vengeful . . . so it was natural for our ignorant ancestors to assign such weaknesses to God. Perpetuating this error in this day and age with our knowledge of human psychology is completely inexcusable!!
God demonstrated His love for us in this: while we were still sinners, living in our sin and enjoying it, He gave His only Son for us, in that we all would have the same opportunity!...the same chance!...given the same ability! to receive Jesus' sacrifice and believe in His Words, and be changed and live as Jesus lived....holy and blameless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
There you have it. A scripture that says God loves sinners.
...no..there you do not have it at all. He loved us enough to give His Son so that MAYBE! He (God) and us (who live in His will) could have a relationship with one another...He has NO! relationship with willfull sinners who love their sin.
You seem to be saying something and meaning something else. Now you have just said that God did love sinners, even while they were still in their sin (He loved enough us to give us His Son)! Again I scratch my head... God loved us while we were still sinners... therefore God loves sinners...
Quote:
We are to love our enemies...and it does not contradict a single thing...only in your "thoughts" it does...it's in YOUR own mind...and it is wrong. God Word does NOT contradict Himself...EVER!
Sorry, perhaps I did not word that well. I do not believe there are any contradictions in God's word either. But if there is an apparent contradiction, it means we are misinterpreting God's word.
David says he hates God's enemies and God hates his enemies.
Jesus says we are to Love our enemies so we can be like God.
That is a contradiction unless you understand the correct interpretation about what the Psalms were saying. To take what David says (Hate) without taking into account Jesus own words of clarification (Love), is to misinterpret the meaning.
God loves us all Verna. Be well... please think on this some more... if He didn't love us all, He never would have sent His son...
Why would God create something He hates? The something He hates is temporary and is necessary to bring about the greater good and the complete knowledge of the truth.
Or is it a matter of perspective too? I can take a glass, and fill it it half way. One person will say that the glass is half empty, and another person may say that it's half full. It's all about how you see things.
What I have noticed is that so many people really don't understand God's nature. When I hear people say things like the man upstairs is watching over me, my radar turns on simply because God isn't a man.
I can go on and on, but until we fully understand God's nature, then we can understand what His will is for all of us. God's word is powerful, and it's unfortunate that people won't accept it without having to twist it or make it mean what they want it to mean. So again, this question that I am asking is not to stir up debate, but to get people to think about God's nature.
That was my point. So many perspectives from one book which is supposedly the message of god to mankind.
I'm not getting into about what our troops are doing is right or not. That is not the point.
But effectively what you are saying is that God does love people but He doesn't love sinners. This makes me scratch my head. We are all sinners Verna. You are a sinner Verna. Do you realize that?
Its like pcamps has been saying simply: God loved us while we were still sinners.That is scripture Verna. Do you believe that scripture?
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
There you have it. A scripture that says God loves sinners.
Now you will go back to Psalm 5 and say that God hates workers of iniquity. But here is a thought. Is it possible the old testament was under a veil, and David (or the author of Psalms) was not quite correct, or was misinterpreting the spirit of those words?
Matt 5:43 You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies
Why do you think Jesus had to say this? This contradicts what you are saying and what David was saying in the Psalms. Jesus was clarifying what was meant by those words in the psalms.
God does hate workers of iniquity. That is true. But what is a "worker of iniquity". Is it the whole person? Or is it the "old man" - the "carnal self"? Within us there is a part that always wants to sin. For some it is more dominant than others. The old man will die Verna. And what is left is the new creation.
This is how you harmonize "God hates sinners" with "God loves sinners".
You have to take it in context - you have to take the bible as a whole - you have to understand the veil the writers of the old testament were under. God is revealing things slowly. The old testament writers did not have the new testament for additional understanding and interpretation.
Jesus had to clarify it when He came. You have heard it said 'hate your enemy' but I tell you 'love your enemy'.
I hope you consider this thoughtfully and prayerfully.
Legoman
Exactly ... Lets compare the words of David in the psalms with the words of Christ in the Gospels shall we ...
King Davids Prayer ...
Psalm 143:12
In keeping with your mercy, wipe out my enemies
and destroy all who torment me,
because I am your servant.
Jesus words ...
Luke 6:27-28
“But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
And whats more, Christs prayer to God the father concerning his enemies who had him crucified ...
Luke 23:34
Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them. They don’t know what they’re doing.” ...
So the murderer and adulterer king David says God hates sinners and prays for God to wipe out his enemies and to destroy all those who tormented him, while jesus says to love your enemies and pray for those who abuse us ...
Hmm, who should i believe knows God better? The sinless son of God who is Himself the manifest image of the father or a murderer and an adulterer?
Its obvious that David had some issues, and did not fully understand the nature of God as Jesus understood him. The same Goes for many of the old testament prophets and heroes ... Could it be that Israel was blinded to the true nature of God, by god himself? What do the scriptures say about it?
Rom 11:7-10
What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day." And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever."
Ill believe Jesus over any one else, especially the hardened Israelites of the old and new testament who obviously contradict Christ ...
And if there is any room for doubt whether or not God loves sinners, we have ...
1Jo 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.
Thats right folks, God loved everyone of us before we ever loved him. How can that be? If God hates sinners and all those who do not love him, then 1Jo 4:19 is a lie from Satan.
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-18-2010 at 04:38 PM..
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. It is also what we are commended to teach:
We are all sinners Verna. You are a sinner Verna. Do you realize that?
