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Originally Posted by Eusebius
Notice also that if anyone resists the authorities God has set in place that such a one is withstanding God's mandate. So as Christians we should not resist God nor those He has set in place over us, even if we believe what they are doing is wrong.
It seems that Hitler and "W" couldn't agree with you more.
That right. I hope "W" would agree with me and Paul who taught us to be subject to those who God sets over us for our good. It doesn't matter how good or bad a leader is. What matters is that the Christian live under their leaders with the knowledge that God knows what He's doing.
Break this down, word for word,,and again, CHOOSE,,for it is, and has always been,,,YOUR CHOICE.
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
SERVE= 1) to be a slave, serve, do service a) of a nation in subjection to other nations 2) metaph. to obey, submit to a) in a good sense, to yield obedience b) in a bad sense, of those who become slaves to some base power, to yield to, give one's self up to
MASTER= 1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord a) the possessor and disposer of a thing 1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master 2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah
Sorry, wrong context. You cannot serve God and MAMMON (money).
Jesus was not saying you cannot serve God and those God sets over you. Gheesh!
Really? I don't see money in the definition of 'Master'.
MASTER= 1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord a) the possessor and disposer of a thing 1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master 2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah
What I do see, is everything else. Saying you cannot serve God and money was the next sentence, in a discourse given by Jesus on instructional living.
So, again. Serve whom you will. You are a slave to the system, and cannot see it, because you are intent on keeping your chattel status. You must live off the system, as much as you fight for your master.
Really? I don't see money in the definition of 'Master'.
MASTER= 1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord a) the possessor and disposer of a thing 1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master 2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah
What I do see, is everything else. Saying you cannot serve God and money was the next sentence, in a discourse given by Jesus on instructional living.
So, again. Serve whom you will. You are a slave to the system, and cannot see it, because you are intent on keeping your chattel status. You must live off the system, as much as you fight for your master.
Even the atheist, can see this.
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
The two masters are God and mammon.
Keep believing it. We all are saved anyway, right? So really, what difference does it make who we serve, or who we submit to, according to you.
Keep your doctrines.
Again, as for me and my house, we shall serve ONLY the Lord Jesus Chrsit.
When you tell your kids to mow the lawn, take out the trash, clean their rooms, etc., are they submitting/serving you or Jesus?
When you ask (some of us may have to beg, coerce, entice or manipulate...) your wife for a little late night loving, is she submitting/serving you or Jesus?
When you tell your kids to mow the lawn, take out the trash, clean their rooms, etc., are they submitting/serving you or Jesus?
Big difference there. First off, I am the king of my house. I am also the priest of my house. My kids honor and obey me, because of the titles given to me, by God. He bestows upon those whom are His with these titles. But, the question is, whom do I submit to, and serve?
Well, the biblical verses are too numurous to post, but here is a sampling:
But I want you to understand that *Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
Now, how many 'heads' do I have over me?
For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the Church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Quote:
When you ask (some of us may have to beg, coerce, entice or manipulate...) your wife for a little late night loving, is she submitting/serving you or Jesus?
I think the above verses are sufficient for that question.
Big difference there. First off, I am the king of my house. I am also the priest of my house. My kids honor and obey me, because of the titles given to me, by God. He bestows upon those whom are His with these titles. But, the question is, whom do I submit to, and serve?
Who do your wife and kids submit to, you or Jesus? Are there two kings over them? But only one over you?
Quote:
Well, the biblical verses are too numurous to post, but here is a sampling:
But I want you to understand that *Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
Now, how many 'heads' do I have over me?
For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the Church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
I think the above verses are sufficient for that question.
What you've demonstrated for us above is the exact same concept spoken of here:
Rom 13:1 Let every soul to the higher authorities be subject, for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God,
Here is how a Roman Government centurion (a Roman military officer commanding one hundred men) instructed his friends tell Jesus.
Luk 7:8 for I also am a man placed under authority, having under myself soldiers, and I say to this one , Go, and he goeth; and to another, Be coming, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doth it .'
Would not this have been a perfect teaching moment for Jesus to admonish the centurion and his followers for "pulling rank" or participating in worldly affairs of Government work, such as war, if this was contrary to what Jesus taught, as you're telling us it is? But Jesus does not. He commends the centurion:
Luk 7:9 And having heard these things Jesus wondered at him, and having turned to the multitude following him, he said, `I say to you, not even in Israel so much faith did I find;'
But why commend this Government centurion (a Roman military officer commanding one hundred men) who's duty it was to use the sword, to kill on behalf of the Government? Why do this if Jesus is a pacifist as you claim?
Why also does Christ tell us to:
1Pe 2:13 Be subject, then, to every human creation, because of the Lord, whether to a king, as the highest,
1Pe 2:14 whether to governors, as to those sent through him, for punishment, indeed, of evil-doers, and a praise of those doing good;
The reason is: We subject ourselves to Governments that Christ has ordained for our good, BECAUSE OF the Lord. Not in-spite of the Lord or in competition to the Lord, or to set up another king over us, as you keep saying we do. But rather to honor and obey Christ.
It is Jesus who commands the believer (including every soul) to be subject to "higher authorities", in subjection to Christ. There is no difference in Christ placing you in authority over your own house as it is for the government being placed in authority over it's house, those who live within it's boundaries. And every person has been appointed by God to dwell within a nation:
Act 17:26 He made also of one blood every nation of men, to dwell upon all the face of the earth--having ordained times before appointed, and the bounds of their dwellings--
Even Paul referred to the "nation" he was subjected to as being "my nation":
Act 28:19 and the Jews having spoken against it , I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar--not as having anything to accuse my nation of;
Not "that" nation, or "this" nation, or "their" nation, but rather "my nation". That very nation that Paul here takes ownership of and calls "my nation". The nation he is made subject to, by Christ.
When your wife and kids obey you or the Government they are not obeying the Government or HotinAZ, per se, but rather Jesus, their Lord and God, who has put you and the Government in authority over them, for their good and protection.
Why you're unwilling to accept this is beyond me. I think you're just being stubborn here.
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 12-12-2010 at 11:55 AM..
Reason: typo
Only those who recieve a handout would make the claims that we are to submit/serve under any other master. Why is this? Because they ARE your master. Doesn't matter what the handout is,,welfare,, social security,, unemployment,,professional governmental workers,,hired guns,,etc,etc.
Myself?
Absolutely NOT!
Once the Truth has set you free, you are free INDEED!
Jesus says take no care for tomorrow, for God knows what you need.
Why subject yourself like cattle? Why serve the farmer?
Serve each other, out of love. That is what we are called to do.
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