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>>Mary and Joseph were to call His name Jesus. Matthew 1:21.
The people would call Him Emmanuel (Matt.1:23).<<
RESPONSE:
No. The people would call Jesus "Jesus." Not "Emmanuel."
Matt 1:23 is refering to the Emmanuel of Isaiah 7:14.
Matt 1: 23 "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means "God is with us." (NAB)
COMMENT: That's what happens when you comingle scriptural passages.
Additionally, the Messiah would have had to be born by a virgin to not be under the same curse as Adam.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Mary was Jesus' mother, regardless of whether she was a virgin or not. I fully believe that she was, but it definitely sounds like you are talking about the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which refers to Mary's own conception and not the conception of her Son.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Mary was Jesus' mother, regardless of whether she was a virgin or not. I fully believe that she was, but it definitely sounds like you are talking about the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which refers to Mary's own conception and not the conception of her Son.
Katzpur, if Jesus was born of Joseph and Mary then Jesus would have carried the death gene inherited from Adam. It is my understanding that the woman, by herself, does not carry this gene.
Since Jesus was begotten by holy spirit using Mary's egg Jesus did not have death operating in Him and therefore was sinless.
Your using fallacies in your arguments. For example, your saying that something written 500 years later cannot be factual. For example, I may not have been there when King David was born but I think it to be factual that he would have been a human. So to say it is an unreliable historial document is not only a fallacy but on the contrary it is proven historical relevance in that it confirms observations by eye witness accounts. Plus your understanding of 500 years after the fact is also not close to accurate. I'm sure the Talmud is filled with errors but again, that is not why it was brought up. It was brought up because it contains observation of temple activites and Israelite life at the time.
RESPONSE: Please don't misquote me. I said:
" Something written 200 to 500 years after the fact and by a group not accepting Christianity is a doubtfully reliable historical source for Christianity."
Did David (and Solomon) actually exist? An interesting historical question. That question has been debated for some time now. Aside from one inscription referring to "the House of David," there seems to little archeological evidence either David or Solomon were real persons and not instead part of Jewish folklore. If they existed, given their importance, surely there would be archeological evidence of some sort.
>...it confirms observations by eye witness accounts.<<
What "eye witness accounts" referring to David (out side of the Old Testament) are you referring to. None have been found. What might that lead historians to infer?
Perhaps elsewhere we might run a thread on that question.
>>I'm sure the Talmud is filled with errors <<
Yep.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 12-28-2010 at 09:31 AM..
Reason: addition
>>Mary and Joseph were to call His name Jesus. Matthew 1:21.
The people would call Him Emmanuel (Matt.1:23).<<
RESPONSE:
No. The people would call Jesus "Jesus." Not "Emmanuel."
Matt 1:23 is refering to the Emmanuel of Isaiah 7:14.
Matt 1: 23 "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means "God is with us." (NAB)
COMMENT: That's what happens when you comingle scriptural passages.
No, that's incorrect.
Mat 1:18 Now Jesus Christ's birth was thus:At the espousal of His mother, Mary, to Joseph, ere their coming together, she was found pregnant by holy spirit. (19) Now Joseph, her husband, being just and not willing to hold her up to infamy, intended covertly to dismiss her.
(20) Now at his brooding over these things, lo! a messenger of the Lord appeared to him in a trance, saying, "Joseph, son of David, you may not be afraid to accept Miriam, your wife, for that which is being generated in her is of holy spirit.
(21) Now she shall be bringing forth a Son, and you shall be calling His name Jesus, for He shall be saving His people from their sins."
(22) Now the whole of this has occurred that that may be fulfilled which is declared by the Lord through the prophet, saying:
(23) "Lo! The virgin shall be pregnant
And shall be bringing forth a Son,
And they shall be callingHis name 'Emmanuel,'
which is, being construed, "God with us."
So in the above verse 21 the "you" in "you shall be calling His name Jesus" is in the second person, singular and is told to Joseph. Joseph is to call His name Jesus.
In verse 23 it is the singular Virgin, Mary who brings forth the Son and then the "they" in "they shall be calling His name Emmanuel" is 3rd person plural and is speaking about what the people of Israel will call Him. Get it?
So it is not "they will call His name Jesus" but "they will call His name Emmanuel.
I know 1:23 is fulfilling Isaiah 7:14 as you point out above. That's the whole point.
This is like saying that Homer's account of the god's activities in the heavens are historical because he wrote them in his book The Oddyssey.
But it's not the same because the Odyssey (with one 'd) was meant to be fictitious and the people took it to be fictitious. The Bible was never meant to be fictitious but an historical account.
Katzpur, if Jesus was born of Joseph and Mary then Jesus would have carried the death gene inherited from Adam. It is my understanding that the woman, by herself, does not carry this gene.
Since Jesus was begotten by holy spirit using Mary's egg Jesus did not have death operating in Him and therefore was sinless.
RESPONSE:
Good grief! A death gene inherited from Adam that a woman by herself doesn't carry????
>>Since Jesus was begotten by holy spirit using Mary's egg Jesus did not have death operating in Him<<
1. Jesus died.
2. If Mary's egg was used and she wasn't inseminated in some fashion by a male, Jesus would have to have been a women, ie, no "Y" chromosome would have been present to transmit to him.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 12-28-2010 at 09:39 AM..
Reason: typo
>>Jesus, according to the historical accounts of the Bible is
seated at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19)
is dwelling in light inaccessable (1 Tim.6:16)
RESPONSE:
Do you mean "historical" or allegorical?
Literally.
Quote:
Eusebius posted:
>>Actually I can prove that. Just go to where Elvis is burried and exhume the body. His body is still in the grave, hence, he is not riding around the universe in a UFO.<<
RESPONSE:
It's evidently Elvis' spirit that lives on. Keep in mind there have been far more claimed Elvis sightings after this death then there were claimed of Jesus after his Resurrection.
And those reporting the sighting give their names.
(You believe both stories, don't you?)
But we know they couldn't be telling the truth about Elvis still being alive because he is still in the grave. Jesus isn't.
Good grief! A death gene inherited from Adam that a woman by herself doesn't carry????
>>Since Jesus was begotten by holy spirit using Mary's egg Jesus did not have death operating in Him<<
1. Jesus died.
2. If Mary's egg was used and she wasn't inseminated in some fashion by a male, Jesus would have to have been a women, ie, no "Y" chromosome would have been present to transmit to him.
Jesus only died because He gave up His spirit. He could have continued living even though His blood was drained out of Him as evidenced on the cross.
No, Jesus would not have been a woman even though not inseminated by a male because He was not a woman even though not inseminated by a male.
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A death gene inherited from Adam that a woman by herself doesn't carry????
