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If you find evidence to replace the speculation, I'll be happy to review it.
Guess your dog came by and ate the link I provided that gives you a clear history of the history of Christian Zionism and their influence on such affairs.
Thomas, I know you are a very learned man and may or may not know much about this (what is written in the link below); however, me, being a former Fundamentalist and HEAVILY influenced by this type of theology growing up in the Caribbean, recognize much of this stuff as being the way it really is. Please read (all are free to read). It gives a pretty good history of how groups WITHIN Protestant Christianity helped to create an atmosphere that helped to bring about the creation of Israel.
I am aware of Christian Zionism and dispensationalism. This may have had more influence on the creation of Israel than I thought, but
One: I'm not convinced all Christian Zionists were dispensationalists. Many were Catholic or Anglican, neither group is really known for embracing dispensationalism.
Two: I still think the main elements of creating the state of Israel were more Jewish Zionism, British imperial desires (like getting Jewish support for WWI and having a Westernized people in the Mideast), European antisemitism (getting Jews out of Europe or "Christendom"), and the Holocaust.
Dispensationalism I think only became so important to the issue in the late 1970s when there was the rise of "The Christian Right" in the US and an increase in Islamic Fundamentalism. Suddenly the enemies of Israel seemed to be more clearly our enemy as well. In the 1950s Israel seemed suspiciously socialist to some and Islamic allies against Communism seemed more important.
I think being ex-Fundamentalist you might be tempted to see the Fundamentalist influence as greater than it is. As I've never been Fundamentalist I might go the opposite direction as "Christian Zionism", even dispensationalism, was maybe more important to Israel's beginning than I thought.
Guess your dog came by and ate the link I provided that gives you a clear history of the history of Christian Zionism and their influence on such affairs.
It was an opinion piece my friend. Opinion pieces are not history books. They are some one's personal opinions and conclusions based on other opinions and conclusions.
Someone once told be that US created Israel after WW-II so that the surviving Jews would have somewhere to go and would not emigrate to US. When I asked for proof, he had as much as you have: someone opinion piece saying there is such and such politicians at the time who were anti-semites, so that is why they did it. Pure speculation and conspiracy theorizing.
Read about the history of Israel from a neutral source and you will learn how and why it was created and who the key players were. The world was not controlled by a "Chriatian Zionists" at the time.
It was an opinion piece my friend. Opinion pieces are not history books. They are some one's personal opinions and conclusions based on other opinions and conclusions.
Someone once told be that US created Israel after WW-II so that the surviving Jews would have somewhere to go and would not emigrate to US. When I asked for proof, he had as much as you have: someone opinion piece saying there is such and such politicians at the time who were anti-semites, so that is why they did it. Pure speculation and conspiracy theorizing.
Read about the history of Israel from a neutral source and you will learn how and why it was created and who the key players were. The world was not controlled by a "Chriatian Zionists" at the time.
*sigh*
No one is saying the world was controlled by anybody. There were various reasons why the nation of Israel was formed and ONE of those reasons came from the arena of religion. Those who saw a SPIRITUAL reason behind it, as in today's world with the Christian right, threw their convictions behind political leaders, some of whom they were able to gain an audience.
Theodor Herzl is considered the [Jewish] father of Zionism, but is there no consideration that his vision was helped along by an Anglican minister?
"One of the most important figures in the development of Christian Zionism was the Anglican chaplain in Vienna during the 1880s, William Hechler, who became an acquaintance of Herzl. Hechler saw Herzl and the Zionist project as ordained by God in order to fulfill the prophetic scriptures. He used his extensive political connections to assist the Zionist leader in his quest for an international sponsor of the Zionist project. Hechler arranged meetings with the Ottoman sultan and the German kaiser, but it was his indirect contacts with the British elite that led to a meeting with the politician Arthur Balfour. That meeting in 1905 would eventually lead to Balfour’s November 1917 declaration on a Jewish homeland, which brought the Zionists their initial international legitimacy. Balfour’s keen interest in Zionism was prepared at least in part by his Sunday school faith, a case put forth by Balfour’s biographer and niece, Blanch Dugdale."
You see how religion and politics became married in the early years of modern Zionism to help to get the ball on Israel rolling? You can deny it all you want or put words at my fingertips that I have not typed, but the fact remains, Christians who were caught up in the end times euphoria of the 17, 18 and 1900s threw their support behind the idea of a restored Israel because they felt Jesus could not return to save them IF the Jews were not back in their land.
Now, we recall the Millerities debacle of the early 1800s where hundreds of gullible sheep camped out in some northeastern hillside waiting for Jesus to return. I wonder how many figured Miller was on to something, but he overlooked one key requirement - Israel MUST be restored!
You are correct, but there is another part of what Christ said which you have conveniently ignored. Christ also talked about the physical Kingdom to be established by God on earth and which he will rule in at some point. So the reality is that the Kingdom is both in our minds and a physical one.
I have not ignored anything. The same principal applies.
Religion has us looking everywhere but ourselves for the establishment of the kingdom through Christ. That is why churches are full of people afraid, confused and spiritually dead and generally bitter and mean.
I have not ignored anything. The same principal applies.
Religion has us looking everywhere but ourselves for the establishment of the kingdom through Christ. That is why churches are full of people afraid, confused and spiritually dead and generally bitter and mean.
I agree. The Kingdom is all about the heart of man, not real estate. God owns everything! What land or house can you sell Him or buy for Him??
It seems that God is indeed allowing satan/flesh/son of perdition to wreck havoc on the earth through religious teachings (of all flavors) which point to a country, a people, a city, a land, a doctrine, a "prophetic word"...
But God is the Creator of you and me and the Arabs and the Jews and the Hindus and the Buddhists and all the rest! We are His, we all live because He is good to all of us. Without Him, we wouldn't exist!
That's why He died for all mankind-- because we are His, we have been bought with His blood. All of us.
Is that a light thing?
Blessings,
brian
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