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Thomas, I know you are a very learned man and may or may not know much about this (what is written in the link below); however, me, being a former Fundamentalist and HEAVILY influenced by this type of theology growing up in the Caribbean, recognize much of this stuff as being the way it really is. Please read (all are free to read). It gives a pretty good history of how groups WITHIN Protestant Christianity helped to create an atmosphere that helped to bring about the creation of Israel.
What prophesy? the OT prophecies are for the Jews and Israelites of the Babylonian exile and Assyrian scattering respectively. There is nothing concrete beyond that return, notbaly in the NT that speaks (predicts) of a MODERN re-gathering.
Up to a point, yes. Some prophecies were for other cities and our time. And in this current dispensation, we are all Isrealites.
What prophesy? the OT prophecies are for the Jews and Israelites of the Babylonian exile and Assyrian scattering respectively. There is nothing concrete beyond that return, notbaly in the NT that speaks (predicts) of a MODERN re-gathering.
Like so much of prophesy, that's open to interpretation and many scholars believe they very well do point to modern-day Israel.
However, it may not. But, my question is still pertinent: WHAT IF they are right?
While I will qualify up front that not ALL Christians (I would say the great majority) do NOT hold these views, the few that did and do have had a GREAT impression on the politics of the Middle East, notably the formation of the state of Israel. Please look at the link below and read up a little on a little secret often lost on the general public.
It is a conspiracy theory, pure and simple. Read your own link and you will see it is nothing but personal opinion offered as an alternate truth. You think the arab coalition attacked Israel and then lost the war in purpose so Israel could retake Jerusalem? You know, to fulfill a prophecy?
Like so much of prophesy, that's open to interpretation and many scholars believe they very well do point to modern-day Israel.
However, it may not. But, my question is still pertinent: WHAT IF they are right?
I am deeply convinced they (BIBLICAL scholars) are NOT right. Those prophets wrote for THEIR times and their immediate future and is the hallmark of apocalyptic talk, wrote their "end times" or "latter" times talk during times of trouble or anticipated trouble.
It is a conspiracy theory, pure and simple. Read your own link and you will see it is nothing but personal opinion offered as an alternate truth. You think the arab coalition attacked Israel and then lost the war in purpose so Israel could retake Jerusalem? You know, to fulfill a prophecy?
Are you saying this to deny that there was NO Christian involvement in fueling the notion of a homeland for the Jews? I am NOT saying that was necessarily a bad thing, but clearly there were groups of Christians who held a theology that Jews MUST be back in their homeland to fulfill prophecy and decided to nudge the alleged prophecies along to entice Jesus off his his throne to come and whisk them away while the rest of the world plunged into hell. That to me is a disturbing. The interesting this is, these few individuals who held these ideas over 100 years ago have left and indelible mark on millions upon millions of Christians today who carry on their brand of theology.
Are you saying this to deny that there was NO Christian involvement in fueling the notion of a homeland for the Jews? I am NOT saying that was necessarily a bad thing, but clearly there were groups of Christians who held a theology that Jews MUST be back in their homeland to fulfill prophecy and decided to nudge the alleged prophecies along to entice Jesus off his his throne to come and whisk them away while the rest of the world plunged into hell. That to me is a disturbing. The interesting this is, these few individuals who held these ideas over 100 years ago have left and indelible mark on millions upon millions of Christians today who carry on their brand of theology.
You conclude these people created Israel to fulfill a prophecy, and that they did it because.......... because they believe in Bible prophecy. They believe in the Bible, so that must have motivated them. Pure speculation. You need to provide some real evidence as opposed to just saying that they did it because they believe something.
You conclude these people created Israel to fulfill a prophecy, and that they did it because.......... because they believe in Bible prophecy. They believe in the Bible, so that must have motivated them. Pure speculation. You need to provide some real evidence as opposed to just saying that they did it because they believe something.
I did NOT say they 'CREATED' Israel. I said they were a DRIVING force in getting it to that point. They believing 'bible prophecy' does NOT mean they had a correct interpretation of the scriptures and as a result just did what they thought was in line with the bible. Remember, their motivation was not really because they necessarily cared for the Jews (I am sure they were some who did), but because of a need to meet an end - THEIR personal deliverance and fortunes. That the Jews would experience unspeakable horrors, according to THEIR own (the Christian Zionists) biblical interpretations, was of no concern to them.
I did NOT say they 'CREATED' Israel. I said they were a DRIVING force in getting it to that point. They believing 'bible prophecy' does NOT mean they had a correct interpretation of the scriptures and as a result just did what they thought was in line with the bible. Remember, their motivation was not really because they necessarily cared for the Jews (I am sure they were some who did), but because of a need to meet an end - THEIR personal deliverance and fortunes. That the Jews would experience unspeakable horrors, according to THEIR own (the Christian Zionists) biblical interpretations, was of no concern to them.
If you find evidence to replace the speculation, I'll be happy to review it.
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