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acts 8:12 -18 seems to suggest to a dummy like me that it comes by laying of hands....a friend in bible study is real convinced this verse just meant for 1st century church. and that gifts like these have ceased so he says scripture teaches
throw in that remission cannot come except for the ritual of baptism and we've got talking points
one more: it is okay for non believers to take communion since it won't have any impact for them not having the spirit
1 Cor 11:23-34
concerning whether satan can still appear before God in the heavenlys given Zech 3, Job, Has he been cast out of heaven permanently with Calvary...Rev 12 seems to suggest this
People who don`t believe that believer of Jesus Christ can be blessed with the Gifts and healing and redemption through Holy Spirit the blessing of Jesus Christ , but only people who lived in the 1st century are blessed because free liberal thinkers today who won`t receive , people who believe will receive and if they don`t then they must change the churches and find one were the gospel is preached and there is evidence of Holy Spirit and there are many churches were The Lord is moving and blessing the believer today ......
acts 8:12 -18 seems to suggest to a dummy like me that it comes by laying of hands....a friend in bible study is real convinced this verse just meant for 1st century church. and that gifts like these have ceased so he says scripture teaches
throw in that remission cannot come except for the ritual of baptism and we've got talking points
one more: it is okay for non believers to take communion since it won't have any impact for them not having the spirit
1 Cor 11:23-34
concerning whether satan can still appear before God in the heavenlys given Zech 3, Job, Has he been cast out of heaven permanently with Calvary...Rev 12 seems to suggest this
thanks in advance
dave
Acts 8:14-17 indicates that baptism by water comes first, followed by the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
I think it's important to recognize that a person may feel the influence of the Holy Ghost in his life prior to baptism, perhaps testifying to him that Jesus is the Christ and the means by which he can be saved. But the gift of the Holy Ghost -- i.e. having Him with you as your constant companion -- comes after baptism and is given by the laying on of hands by someone who has the authority to do so.
acts 8:12 -18 seems to suggest to a dummy like me that it comes by laying of hands....a friend in bible study is real convinced this verse just meant for 1st century church. and that gifts like these have ceased so he says scripture teaches
throw in that remission cannot come except for the ritual of baptism and we've got talking points
one more: it is okay for non believers to take communion since it won't have any impact for them not having the spirit
1 Cor 11:23-34
concerning whether satan can still appear before God in the heavenlys given Zech 3, Job, Has he been cast out of heaven permanently with Calvary...Rev 12 seems to suggest this
thanks in advance
dave
With the exception of a few people at the beginning of the church age (there was a specific reason for those exceptions), every believer is indwelt by God the Holy Spirit at the moment he believes in Christ. It has nothing to do with either the laying on of hands or with water baptism. Water baptism is only a ritual which symbolizes the actual baptism of the Holy Spirit which occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.
Gal 3:2 'This is the only thing I want to find out from you; did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is only one of seven salvation ministries of the Holy Spirit.
1] Regeneration.
2] The creation of a human spirit at the moment of salvation.
The only requirement for the believer to take communion - the Lords supper, is that you name - acknowledge your known sins to God the Father as per 1 John 1:9 so that you're in fellowship with God under the control or filling of the Holy Spirit (refer to the first link). Otherwise you can come under divine discipline (1 Corinthians 11:27-30).
Satan still has access to heaven. He will not be permanantly banned from heaven until the middle of the tribulation. Revelation 12:7-17 refers to the middle of the tribulation.
acts 8:12 -18 seems to suggest to a dummy like me that it comes by laying of hands....a friend in bible study is real convinced this verse just meant for 1st century church. and that gifts like these have ceased so he says scripture teaches
dave
It can come by the laying on of hands. However, I don't believe that is the one and only way, because in reading Acts 2 we see that they received the Holy Spirit, but nobody laid hands on them. I don't believe this experience was limited exclusively to the early church. There are many today who believe and teach that these gifts have ceased, however, nowhere in the Bible does it say the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased.
thanks, great responses...i was sort of suprised when my friend who is conducting this bible study in his house was so very adamant about the gifts having ceased, the requirement of the physical symbolic act of water baptism, for the indwelling to actually take place, and the fact that anyone could eat communion and grape juice, since if you're not saved, then the physical consumption of this would have no spiritual significance.
when the verses suggests otherwise it is awkward to discussion since i go to bible studies to grow in fellowship, not argue. I want to continue to go and I think the HS gives understanding anyway and I feel like I have it according to scripture.
as fas gifts of the HS today, I can just point to Heb 4:2 and say sure nothing in the bible profits anyone in any way if it is not mixed with faith.
People 'say' many things -- That's why we need the Bible!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave737driver
thanks, great responses...i was sort of suprised when my friend who is conducting this bible study in his house was so very adamant about the gifts having ceased, the requirement of the physical symbolic act of water baptism, for the indwelling to actually take place, and the fact that anyone could eat communion and grape juice, since if you're not saved, then the physical consumption of this would have no spiritual significance.
when the verses suggests otherwise it is awkward to discussion since i go to bible studies to grow in fellowship, not argue. I want to continue to go and I think the HS gives understanding anyway and I feel like I have it according to scripture.
as fas gifts of the HS today, I can just point to Heb 4:2 and say sure nothing in the bible profits anyone in any way if it is not mixed with faith.
peace and grace
Hi Dave, -- It seems there are a few issues here; all of which are pretty clearly spelled-out in scripture, BUT, about which people are often a little confused and uncertain. Let me try to shed some scriptural light on the matter of the Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts:
Indwelling Holy Spirit: Every true believer is 'born again' in God's indwelling Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the "mind of God'; leads and guides believers; is a counselor; empowers believers to participate in God's work; teaches us about the things of God; seals us unto redemption; gives us Spiritual Life; Conveys the fruits of the Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts; etc. While laying on of hands and baptism is part of the Christian experience, the Holy Spirit 'comes' by God's will and power ... NOT, by anything we might do! (It's kind of like the notion that "prayer works" ... when actually, it's God that is 'working'!)
Fruit of the Holy Spirit: (Gal 5:22) - These 'fruits' give evidence to the believer that they are truly born again; ... and that the Holy Spirit is truly transforming them from the inside out by the renewing of their minds and hearts.
Gifts of the Holy Spirit: (Rom 12:3-8, 1 Cor 12:27-31, Eph 4:11-14). Three categories of Holy Spirit powered Spiritual Gifts are:
1). Service Gifts -- Service/helps, Exhortation/Encouragement, Giving, Administration, mercy.
2). Ministry Gifts -- Apostleship, Evangelism, Prophecy, Teaching, Pastor
3). Supernatural Gifts -- Tongues, Interpreting Tongues, Healing, Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Test of Spiritual Gifts:
1). Is it scriptural? (perceived natural talents are not Spiritual Gifts)
2). Does it edify/build-up Christ's church on earth (body of Christ)
3). Does it produce fruit (God always produces fruit where He is working)
God empowers every believer with at least one Spiritual Gift (We are to combine these Gifts with those of other members of the body of Christ, which allows Christ's church on earth to work). The Spiritual Gifts also tell US where God wants to work in/through us! If we are working outside of our Spiritual Gift/s, we are essentially trying to do the "work of the Lord in the arm of the flesh.' The confusion about Spiritual Gifts arises because, frankly, it's difficult for us to give up control in our lives ... and truly let God be God in US! But, the indwelling Holy Spirit has certainly not stopped working and Spiritual Gifts have certainly not ceased!
The category of Spiritual Gifts that gives folks the most heartburn is the Supernatural Gifts, which leads many to stridently cling to the "these too shal cease" passage. However, the clear evidence of Spirit-powered Service Gifts and Ministry Gifts (also defined in scripture as 'Spiritual Gifts') ... really throw a 'monkey wrench' into that understanding. --
-- Hope this helps clarify things a little.
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People 'say' many things -- That's why we need the Bible!
