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I believe you're wrong about Purgatory, per se. On the other hand, I do believe that there is an intermediate state that the spirit resides in after we die while we await the resurrection. The doctrine of purgatory is, in my opinion, related to this teaching, which absolutely was a part of early Christianity. I believe that the spirits of everyone who has ever lived will find themselves in this spirit realm after they die, not just those who have committed certain sins and need to be purged of those sins prior to entering Heaven. My belief is that this spirit realm will be a place of peace and rest for the righteous and a place of torment and anguish for the wicked, but that as the wicked acknowledge their sins, repent of them and accept Christ as their Savior, they will be released from the torment and continue to await the resurrection in peace.
Sounds a lot like the way then Cardinal Ratzinger explains Purgatory in his book.
I conclude I will be seeing maybe 2 or 3 people at the most from this section of the forum in Heaven.
That has got to be the single most egotistical statement I have ever read on this forum. I'm really curious as to which of us you're going to advise God to let in.
I found this little snippet on another board I go to. I dont have the book in front of me, but it's available in English.
Quote:
Purgatory is the final purification after death that makes us fit to be in the presence of God. Both the Pope and the Church adhere to this. As to details, it might interest you that then-Cardinal Ratzinger wrote the following, from his book Eschatology:
"The transforming 'moment' of this encounter cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of 'short' or 'long' duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The 'temporal measure' of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an 'existential time,' in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world.
. . .
"[Purgatory] is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints.
. . .
"Encounter with the Lord is this transformation."...
--Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231
That has got to be the single most egotistical statement I have ever read on this forum. I'm really curious as to which of us you're going to advise God to let in.
There's no shortage of egotism around these parts lOL
Here I'd like to mention three, that may be the most popular and frequently asked ones that can appear in the religious community!
Relying on "once baptized (as a baby) , always saved"
Someone who becomes born-again, will probably feel the desire to be baptized in water to publicly and outwardly express he repented and accepted Jesus... As a baby we cannot repent and make a personal choice for JESUS.. So therefore we need to be old enough or at an age where we can make this choice. The water baptism of a baby has no effect whatsoever, it is only tradition and a very false teaching from the priests in the Catholic church and other denominations.. sorry! (not to mention that many teach it is something that provides eternal security..) Just read the Bible and you will see it!
Worship God, Praise Him all the time and Let's avoid the teachings and traditions of men! Men cannot save us, Jesus Can!
That's right...Men cannot save us, Jesus Can. That is why your explaination of infant baptism is a false teaching that is to be avoided.
Is faith a gift of God or gift of men ?
The Bible describes faith as more than an intellectual process....more than head knowledge. By saying that faith is an intellectual process essentially makes saving faith no longer a gift from God but into a good work. Just because we can not understand how a baby has faith..it is that very example that Jesus points to for adults to have.
It is with your heart that you believe... Romans 10:10
Scripture teaches that heart-knowledge is something we can chose or cannot come to posses by our own power or choice. Ephesians 2:8
Since God is all powerful, it is no more miraculous for him to give that gift to an unbelieving infant as it is for him to create faith in the heart of an unbelieving adult.
"Who can be saved?"
"With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" Matthew 19:25-26
If baptism is related to repentence, which the Bible clearly states it to be, it would have to be restricted to those who are old enough to have intentionally chosen to disobey God's commandments and then repent of their sins. I don't believe babies are capable of either sinning or repenting.
The Bible clearly states ..... that it would have to be restricted to those who are old enough to have intentionally chosen to disobey God's commandments and then repent of their sins. I don't believe babies are capable of either sinning or repenting.
Which revelation are you refering to......
God revealed in the KJV:
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
I don't think it's a matter of Jesus needing our help for anything. It's a matter of us needing Jesus' help. Just because we know He has promised to help us, both as we go through life and to attain salvation, I don't believe that gives us the right to sit back and let Him do what we are capable of doing for ourselves. I believe He expects 100% commitment from us, and that it is selfish and unreasonable for us to say, "I believe, Lord. Now you do the rest." I believe it's a false doctrine to think that our obedience means nothing to Him.
Help us do what? Yes, He helps and empowers us to do His will, but too often, we seek his assistance in doing OUR will and there are plenty of teachers and preachers out there teaching the false doctrine of self-fulfillment.
There is no clear instruction to baptize infants or not to baptize them in scripture. Infant Baptism is an inference drawn from the nature of Gods covenant(s) with man.
The OT teaches us that God made a covenant with Abraham and the sign of this covenant was circumcision. The NT speaks of an establishment of a new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ (Heb 8.) What we need to consider here the change in covenants and the sign of the New Covenant is Baptism. (Mt 28:19).
If you look at the progression of God's covenants in Scripture, you see that they gradually become more inclusive so it makes no sense for the sign to become more exclusive.
The Bible clearly states ..... that it would have to be restricted to those who are old enough to have intentionally chosen to disobey God's commandments and then repent of their sins. I don't believe babies are capable of either sinning or repenting.
Which revelation are you refering to......
God revealed in the KJV:
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
What sin do you believe a newborn baby to be guilty of? The sin of being born? By the time a woman is old enough to bear children, she has most definitely sinned. In sin she will conceive her children.
How many babies do you believe start speaking either truth or lies "as soon as they are born"?
If and when you ever look into the eyes of your newborn child, you will see pure innocence, not depravity.
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