Free will - fact ot fiction (quotes, miracle, devil, reasons)
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Pneuma, I just saw this. I agree with this. I just asked this in reference to what pcamps said about a person being the cause of all that happens in his or her life or world. I disagreed with that. God bless and peace.
But have you not used that scripture to say that God was the cause of the man being born blind?
Sis planning out evil and making man do that evil has NOTHING to do with love.
Pneuma, God Himself delivered Jesus into the hands of sinful men, knowing exactly what would happen. And this will ultimately benefit the entire human race. (Acts 2) What would happen to Jesus was prophesied.
I did believe in free will and UR as the same time. Sure it's possible that all with free will could believe God some day. It's possible God would convince them one by one.
The reason I stopped believing in free will is because it's not scriptural. God does not fail to stop evil because of free will. This notion is made up. It's not anywhere in scripture. God routinely trounces and stomps on the [free] will of man in scripture.
Again I ask does God do this arbitrary? or does He do it because someone prayed, someone loved enough, someone sought His will.
John 9 As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, “ Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him
Yes, God was ultimately the cause of this man to be born blind. It was not because he sinned or that his parents sinned. But so that the works of God might be displayed in him. So God had a purpose for this.
I pick C) God is working in man to stop all evil, but the labourers are few
No it does not fall under B Bob
Your not understanding what I have said brother. Only Christ in man can stop all the evil, obviously Christ was NOT in that man. Why? Because so few seek the will of the Father, the labourers are few.
In your view however you believe God planned for and knew that that man would rape and murder the child.
Tell me brother where is the Love of God in that scenario?
Not many seek His will, the labourers are few. Tis as I said Bob, love is NEVER forced, but love is the greatest force ever to be. We are to be ministers of love. More labourers, more love, less evil. God created good to cut down evil brother (although I know you don't agree with that translation), more good, less evil. WE are to be the lights of this world. However if we do not seek His will the light we have stays in darkness, so seek His will and let your light shine and you will see evil stopped in its tracks.
Brother God wants to stop the evil faster, but He is hindered by man because they do not seek His will. Why do you think we are told to pray for more labourers. God wants to send them but man refuses to seek His will.
You blame God for not working faster, yet the blame lies squarely on man for not seeking His will.
So why does evil abound? because of man. The balls in OUR court brother not in Gods, Jesus showed us the way, follow His example.
I didn't blame God for anything Scott. I simply asked what you believe. Your answer is buried amidst many words. Your answer is "God wants to stop the evil faster, but He is hindered by man" So God want's to stop evil now, but He can't because of man, because of man's free will, which God gave man. But it's not scriptural. In scripture, God at times stop's man evil fast. Miraculously. Immediately. Without man's help. Wihtout permission from man's free will.
I don't blame God Scott. I trust that God has a reason for not stopping the evils we see. It's as simple as that.
Pneuma, God Himself delivered Jesus into the hands of sinful men, knowing exactly what would happen. And this will ultimately benefit the entire human race. (Acts 2) What would happen to Jesus was prophesied.
God bless and peace.
God did not deliver Jesus into the hands of sinful men sis.
God by searching the hearts of man knew that they were going to kill Jesus, the only way Jesus could stop this from happening was by using FORCE, Jesus said it Himself, He could have called 12 legions of angels to stop His crucifixion, but God did not want Him to use FORCE, Love is NEVER forced, it was Love that caused Jesus to give up His life.
I believe that love is a kind of force. It is a kind of force that will open all eyes one day and change all hearts. Yes, God delivered Jesus up into the hands of sinful men. Jesus could have called legions of angels but He knew that this was not God's plan.
Acts 2
22 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man [r]attested to you by God with [s]miracles and wonders and [t]signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of [u]godless men and put Him to death. 24 [v]But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the [w]agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held [x]in its power.
Jesus was delivered up,not because God did not want Him to use force, but because He was sent to be the Savior of the world. This was His mission, to give His life as a ransom for all.
God bless and peace.
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