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View Poll Results: Will Christ fail to accomplish Gods desire to save all people?
Yes 13 23.21%
No 31 55.36%
I don't believe that Jesus is the word of God! 12 21.43%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-14-2011, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,793,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
YES

I recognize these fifteen translations as the inerrant, irrefutable and inspired word of the living God. I cherish, study, obey, and fully trust the Concordant Literal Translation which can be read online here.
Concordant Publishing; Concordant Version

I sometimes refer to several of the following translations too, especially Young's Literal Trahslation.

1. Scarlett's New Testament written in 1792 has "aeonian punishment" in place to "everlasting punishment."
"And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life."

2. The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:
"And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life."

3. Young's Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."
Professor Young also compiled Young's Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

4. The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:
"And these last will go away 'into aeonian punishment,' but the righteous 'into aeonian life.'"

5. The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:
"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

6. The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:
"And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages."
Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as "life of the ages," "fire of the ages;" and in Rev. 14:6, "The good news of the ages." It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth's version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

7. The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."
The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word "forever" which is the same word for "eternal" which says: "Literally, for the age.”

8. Clementson's The New Testament (1938) shows,
"And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life."

9. Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,
"And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life."
It should be noted that the "cutting-off" refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit. The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word "timoria."

10. The Concordant Version (1930):
"And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

11. The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:
"And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life."

12. Joseph Bryant Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,
"and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life."

13. The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976 has "age-abiding correction" instead of "everlasting punishment."

14. Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has "And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

15. Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King's translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.” The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

Also see what other Greek scholars say about it
An Analytical Study of Words
Chapter Eleven
Thank you.

It is interesting you decide which translations are acceptable based on how they translate Matt 25:46. I take it that is a problematic verse for you.

 
Old 07-14-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,416,243 times
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Post Two of the most powerful UR verses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Thank you.

It is interesting you decide which translations are acceptable based on how they translate Matt 25:46. I take it that is a problematic verse for you.
It is only a "problem" when it is translated interpretively rather than literally. When it is translated literally, it is one of the most powerful verses of scripture proving UR.

Another one is, "God will have all men to be saved."
 
Old 07-14-2011, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
It is only a "problem" when it is translated interpretively rather than literally. When it is translated literally, it is one of the most powerful verses of scripture proving UR.

Another one is, "God will have all men to be saved."
Desires. The word is "desires", just like He desired Jews to obey the 10 commandments, which of course never happened.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,416,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Desires. The word is "desires", just like He desired Jews to obey the 10 commandments, which of course never happened.
Have it your way if you must.

God will have (desires if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.

And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11)
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of His desire or pleasure” if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure (the saving of all mankind is one of all God's pleasures)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
 
Old 07-14-2011, 08:01 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,149,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Desires. The word is "desires", just like He desired Jews to obey the 10 commandments, which of course never happened.
Finn, I don't think you really read or understood this verse that I posted yesterday.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


Let me highlight the relevant part related to your comment: God bound everyone over to disobedience.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 08:09 PM
 
63 posts, read 101,612 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Have it your way if you must.

God will have (desires if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.

And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11)
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of His desire or pleasure” if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure (the saving of all mankind is one of all God's pleasures)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 6:10,11
"Who will have"
To intend. To purpose.

To will. To have in mind.

To be resolved and determined.

-Dr. Marvin Vincent-

Who will have all men to be saved (ov pantav anqrwpouv qelei swqhnai).

Literally, who willeth all men, etc. As who, or seeing that he, giving the ground of the previous statement. Prayer to God for all is acceptable to him, because he wills the salvation of all.

Qelei willeth, marking a determinate purpose.

"oV pantaV anqrwpouV qelei swqhnai kai eiV epignwsin alhqeiaV elqein "
 
Old 07-14-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,416,243 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockhead View Post
"Who will have"
To intend. To purpose.

To will. To have in mind.

To be resolved and determined.

-Dr. Marvin Vincent-

Who will have all men to be saved (ov pantav anqrwpouv qelei swqhnai).

Literally, who willeth all men, etc. As who, or seeing that he, giving the ground of the previous statement. Prayer to God for all is acceptable to him, because he wills the salvation of all.

Qelei willeth, marking a determinate purpose.

"oV pantaV anqrwpouV qelei swqhnai kai eiV epignwsin alhqeiaV elqein "
I wish I'd said that.
Glad to meet you Rockhead.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,416,243 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Finn, I don't think you really read or understood this verse that I posted yesterday.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


Let me highlight the relevant part related to your comment: God bound everyone over to disobedience.
And the Jews will continue to be bound and disobey the ten commandments until God lays hold on them by His sovereign grace and causes Jesus to be "choice" in their hearts.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 02:44 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,416,243 times
Reputation: 259
Exclamation The word is not "desires"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Desires. The word is "desires"
As Rockhead pointed out, the word is not "desires."

The Greek word qelei, literally translated, is "willeth"

But even if it were desires, sooner or later, God is going to make sure all of His desires are fulfilled because it is His pleasure to do so.
"I will do all my pleasure" (Isaiah 6:10)

When God sets out to do something, it gets done.

Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-15-2011 at 03:03 AM..
 
Old 07-15-2011, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,793,885 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
Have it your way if you must.
Thanks. Truth matters.

Quote:
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11)
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of His desire or pleasure” if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure (the saving of all mankind is one of all God's pleasures)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
That is a very weak argument, since every day life proves that God permits people to go against His will. Could he force people to always do His will? Yes, of course, but clearly He doesn't. Let's call it "permissive will" shall we.
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