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As a Native American and not a believer in Christianity, I voted Yes, I do not believe that I will be going to any Christian Heaven, no disrespect to Christianity but I have no intentions of going there, I will cross over to the next world and sit amongst my Ancestors, that's my belief.
ptsum,
What I believe is there is only one God --- who is the God of us all -- there is not a christian God, a native american God, an Indian God, a Greek God, etc .... just one, with the Greek, native american, Indian, christian all having a different view of God and the afterlife ......
As a Native American and not a believer in Christianity, I voted Yes, I do not believe that I will be going to any Christian Heaven, no disrespect to Christianity but I have no intentions of going there, I will cross over to the next world and sit amongst my Ancestors, that's my belief.
The Christian God has taken all things into consideration including your Ancestors.
I had the hardest time reconciling the Native American Indians with Jesus, having they not known Him prior to His introduction by the early settlers.
But because of my lack of knowledge and insight into God's works, I had to educate myself with the help of God in order to gain understanding.
I have since learned wisdom and am able to state that your Ancestors are well representatives in their present state as your form of worship.
Your Ancestors are with Jesus as your Jesus and thus are your form of worship.
I realize that at this time you are unable to perceive or even conceive of this spiritual reality(the love of God for all and his plan and purpose to save all) we speak of, and are unable to come to a knowledge of the truth of it at this time because God has hardened your heart to it ... It's like we are speaking a foreign language, you simply cannot understand what we are saying. Its gibberish and makes no sense for you at all ... In large part i imagine that is why you are always misrepresenting what we believe, because the reality is you simply cannot understand it.
I have already come to the knowledge of the truth. Jesus Christ the Lord knocked on my door and enabled be to receive the truth, and I said "yes. my Lord, I will follow you". Nothing you say will change that. I do not subscribe to about alternate religions, such as UR, because they are simply not true. At some point in your life something happened that caused you to become disappointed at God, and in an attempt to put the pieces back together without saying good bye to God, you bought into this religion which sells God as something that He is not.
My example was to point out that when I talk about 4+4=8, you claim it is incorrect because 12/2=6. You don't even know what I am talking about, and in your desire to disagree with everything I say, you begin to argue against a point no one has made. I am not talking about 12/2, I am talking about 4+4. Get it?
I have already come to the knowledge of the truth. Jesus Christ the Lord knocked on my door and enabled be to receive the truth, and I said "yes. my Lord, I will follow you". Nothing you say will change that.
This is the part that is so frustrating. NO ONE is asking you not to follow Jesus!!! . . . Just the opposite. We agree that to follow Jesus and His commands to "love God and each other" is what being Christian is all about.
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I do not subscribe to about alternate religions, such as UR, because they are simply not true. At some point in your life something happened that caused you to become disappointed at God, and in an attempt to put the pieces back together without saying good bye to God, you bought into this religion which sells God as something that He is not.
Alternate religion??? We are Christians, Finn. We follow Christ and His commands. . . but the ET dogma is a corrupt and evil doctrine that blasphemes the true nature of our loving God, period. Belief in ET has NOTHINGto do with salvation. It does NOTaffect belief in Jesus Christ or His love for us all or His commands to "love God and each other." Belief in ET is NOT necessary to be a Christian. Your defense of such Evil as Good because you think it is of God does nothing to aid salvation and undoubtedly corrupts any love there is for God and each other.
What I believe is there is only one God --- who is the God of us all -- there is not a christian God, a native american God, an Indian God, a Greek God, etc .... just one, with the Greek, native american, Indian, christian all having a different view of God and the afterlife ......
Amen Meerkat . In Him we live and move and have our being.
This is the part that is so frustrating. NO ONE is asking you not to follow Jesus!!! . . . Just the opposite. We agree that to follow Jesus and His commands to "love God and each other" is what being Christian is all about. Alternate religion??? We are Christians, Finn. We follow Christ and His commands. . . but the ET dogma is a corrupt and evil doctrine that blasphemes the true nature of our loving God, period. Belief in ET has NOTHINGto do with salvation. It does NOTaffect belief in Jesus Christ or His love for us all or His commands to "love God and each other." Belief in ET is NOT necessary to be a Christian. Your defense of such Evil as Good because you think it is of God does nothing to aid salvation and undoubtedly corrupts any love there is for God and each other.
It's as if the ET god says, “Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”
I have already come to the knowledge of the truth. Jesus Christ the Lord knocked on my door and enabled be to receive the truth, and I said "yes. my Lord, I will follow you". Nothing you say will change that. I do not subscribe to about alternate religions, such as UR, because they are simply not true. At some point in your life something happened that caused you to become disappointed at God, and in an attempt to put the pieces back together without saying good bye to God, you bought into this religion which sells God as something that He is not.
My example was to point out that when I talk about 4+4=8, you claim it is incorrect because 12/2=6. You don't even know what I am talking about, and in your desire to disagree with everything I say, you begin to argue against a point no one has made. I am not talking about 12/2, I am talking about 4+4. Get it?
Oh Fin, i could argue your religion better than you have ever been able to ... I know your false religion better by far than you do. I was born into it and bred into the indoctrination. I understand why you believe the way you do, and could better present it than you ever have, and that is in part why i have come to understand the lies it is built upon.
The doctrine of eternal hell and the false religions built around it propagate hate and fear and destruction and self righteousness and hypocrisy, and the whole world has born witness to the taint of the curse of such false religion for the past 1700 + years, in the form of "the church" and the dark ages that they subjected the whole western world to ... Its purpose is almost served, and soon it will burn. Maybe not today or tomorrow, maybe not this century, but soon enough when the time is right. I hope you do not take part in her judgments ...
You have some truth, but are ensnared by the devils false doctrines. One day you will come to understand the truth of the love of God for all people, and nothing you say will stop Christ from accomplishing Gods will to save all people, for god in Christ already IS the savior of all people, and you are simply late in coming to understand that because you are programmed by the evil religion of eternal evil, and God has not yet seen fit to heal you of the spiritual violence you harbor in your heart for all the people who live and die without being deceived into believing the way you do ... One day he will heal you, like he healed me.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-16-2011 at 07:00 PM..
It's as if the ET god says, “Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”
IMO, that kind of god is a sadistic tyrant.
Makes the likes of Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Genghis Khan and Nebuchadnezzar all look like little orphan Anne ... And if the traditional fundamentalists are right about God, then Moloch is actually a co-savior with Christ, because his religion caused his worshipers to sacrifice their children while they were still babies, so they will not go to hell because according to most traditional fundies God doesn't send babies to hell.
The fact is the false attributes assigned to God as taught by fundies really belong to Moloch ... Many of them are in truth, like the pharisees before them, the children of Gehenna and of their father the devil, wolves in sheep's clothing and white washed tombstones filled with the hopes of everlasting suffering for every person that they deem worthy, which is most of humanity by and large.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-16-2011 at 06:07 PM..
Oh Fin, i could argue your religion better than you have ever been able to ... I know your false religion better by far than you do. I was born into it and bred into the indoctrination. I understand why you believe the way you do, and could better present it than you ever have, and that is in part why i have come to understand the lies it is built upon.
Yours is a religion of infinite hate and fear and destruction and and self righteousness and hypocrisy, and the whole world has born witness the taint of its curse upon the world for the past 1700 + years ... Its purpose is almost served, and soon it will burn. Maybe not today or tomorrow, maybe not this century, but soon enough when the time is right. I hope you do not take part in her judgments ...
You have some truth, but are ensnared by the devils false doctrines. One day you will come to understand the truth of the love of God for all people, and nothing you say will stop Christ from accomplishing Gods will to save all people, for god in Christ already IS the savior of all people, and you are simply late in coming to understand that because you are programmed by the evil religion of eternal evil, and God has not yet seen fit to heal you of the spiritual violence you harbor in your heart for all the people who live and die without being deceived into believing the way you do ... One day he will heal you.
You could do it so much better? How humble of you Maybe you should put those skills to work in order to promote UR, because you are not making any progress boasting about your superior knowledge or by smearing the beliefs of other people. Your religion is summed up in your post above: pure contempt toward anyone who does not agree with you. No thanks I do not want what you have.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-16-2011 at 06:08 PM..
You could do it so much better? How humble of you Maybe you should put those skills to work in order to promote UR, because you are not making any progress boasting about your superior knowledge or by smearing the beliefs of other people. Your religion is summed up in your post above: pure contempt toward anyone who does not agree with you. No thanks I do not want what you have.
I will not lie and say otherwise to suit your sensibilities, i only say what i believe to be true. IMO You rarely if ever provide any substantial arguments for your beliefs, but instead seem to mainly just randomly quote verses you think prove your positions and speak rhetoric the rest of the time. Others here who believe in ET do a much better job of it. Most of the time it seems to me you are just using subversive tactics and running interference in order to destabilize threads about UR, or in threads where the arguments made in support of the doctrine of UR are prevailing.
AS far as my promoting UR, i do the best i can and often fumble in the process, but i believe the fruits of my labor and the labor of others with me are evident, as UR is spreading like wildfire, and the shock waves of the spiritual transformation which are shaking the foundations of many congregations around the world rebound even in this very forum, as i have seen multiple people change their positions in the time i have been posting here. And i will continue to promote as best i can, though from time to time i may take respite, and at others i may fumble while in the process, but i will continue till i die nevertheless.
I try not to hold anyone in contempt regardless of custom or creed or nationality or ethnicity, and i believe we are all important and necessary parts of Gods plan for creation. I also believe that the false doctrine of ET is also a necessary part of Gods plan, just as all evil is a necessary part of His plan. After all the belief that God is cruel like men, but infinitely more so is only men externalizing their own natural perversions. I mean if the thought of even one person being tortured for eternity is not perceived to be perverse, much less the eternal torture of the vast majority of humanity, how perverse must be those who believe that such a thing is not perverse?
I stand with Kierkegaard ...
Quote:
Soren Aabye Kierkegaard, (1813-1855) the Danish father of existentialism, believe in Universal Salvation. He writes: "If others go to hell, then I will go too. But I do not believe that; on the contrary I believe that all will be saved, myself with them - something which arouses my deepest amazement." ( Soren Kierkegaard's Journals and Papers, Vol. 6 (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1978), edited and translated by Howard V. Hong and Edna H. Hong, assited by Gregor Malantschuk)
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-16-2011 at 06:50 PM..
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IMO, that kind of god is a sadistic tyrant.
And if the traditional fundamentalists are right about God, then Moloch is actually a co-savior with Christ, because his religion caused his worshipers to sacrifice their children while they were still babies, so they will not go to hell because according to most traditional fundies God doesn't send babies to hell.
Maybe you should put those skills to work in order to promote UR, because you are not making any progress boasting about your superior knowledge or by smearing the beliefs of other people. Your religion is summed up in your post above: pure contempt toward anyone who does not agree with you. No thanks 
I do not want what you have.