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No, as usual you deliberately misrepresent the argument. Where has anyone even suggested you should go out, snort coke, have sex, live it up? I only see that suggested from you.
Even if it hasn't been mentioned before, why not? If there are no standards to meet, nothing to do but wait for God to save you, why not do anything you like? After all, it must not be sin as God surely isn't going to hold you accountable for it.
Yep, your life is on cruise control straight to heaven, so don't worry about a thing. If God wants to save you in this life, He will do it whether you want it or not, and if He doesn't want to save you, then He will do so in next life. Now go have some FUN, snort some coke, have some sex, live it up. If God didnt' want you to do it, then He would have drawn you to salvation already.
That is not God talking, that is the enemy.
People do drugs and have sex and "live it up" because that is what they are drawn towards. I know, because I've done it myself.
My point is, that it is God who changes the man's heart, and calls the dead out of the tomb. All we can do is share what God has done for us in our own lives.
Therefore, by telling people that they must do "such and such" in order to be happy, to know God, etc, we put ourselves between God and the person. We block God from working in their own lives as HE sees fit.
All throughout the Bible, we see examples of how God moves His hand in one life, and not in another. Jesus chose his disciples, and they were drawn to Him supernaturally. There was no "let me think about it a while," or "what's in it for me?" The same with Lazarus. When God calls the dead, they rise. We too, need to hunger to hear God speak directly to us, not just through the Bible, but His voice. Jesus didn't quote OT verses to Lazarus, He just told him, "come forth." That is spiritual power and spiritual awakening! His Voice is what gives us Life!
Do you have any idea at what point God gave Adolph Hitler the necessary amount of faith to be saved? I wonder if it was before or after he opened the death camps to slaughter God's own Chosen People by the millions? Not to mention an almost equal number of other people! Since he's dead, it had to have been before that, didn't it?
Or, even if not, you're saying that God will save all men in His own good time, including Hitler, without them having to do anything but wait for it to come? Hitler will be in heaven, right alongside those he murdered, without having to repent, have a change of heart, seek forgiveness or anything else? It's like God will say, "Come on in brother Adolph. I'll put you right next to Pastor Neimour and Ann Frank. I'm sure they'll be glad to see you!"
God made Hitler, did He not? Do you suppose that God knew what Hitler would do? Some Jews believe that Hitler was God's divine decree for their disobedience!
So Hitler was formed by God's own hand, the very same hands that made you and me. Are you ashamed of that? You shouldn't be! It is HE who leads and shapes us, and He will give faith to Hitler, so that he can repent (change his mind) and know God. And Hitler will weep with JOY to see that God is merciful, and that He loves us more than we can love Him.
I can understand a non-believer interpreting my posts as "live however you want," but a Christian ought to naturally prefer serving the Lord, now that he/she has been given the faith of Christ.
No, as usual you deliberately misrepresent the argument. Where has anyone even suggested you should go out, snort coke, have sex, live it up? I only see that suggested from you.
Did I say someone here has said it? I made a point, which you obviously fail to understand.
Even if it hasn't been mentioned before, why not? If there are no standards to meet, nothing to do but wait for God to save you, why not do anything you like? After all, it must not be sin as God surely isn't going to hold you accountable for it.
Hey Friend.... why wouldn't people believe what you have to say ?? I believe you. I know there are some deep issues we do not agree with each other, but why shouldn't I believe what you have to say ??? It is God who will show me or anyone the truth of what one is saying, right ??
Yes, Brian you are correct in that God draws the heart to Himself through the Holy Spirit ? And yes, we can not convince them...... But how does God do that ?
And yes, people don't get saved by the hand of the human manipulations, etc.... yet, God tells us faith does comes by hearing, hearing the word of God ! How does that word get to the ears of the unsaved ?
Don't you think God uses many ways to draw people to Him through the Holy Spirit.... especially the testimonies of believers in their faith of what God is and has done in their life. No, it doesn't or won't convince them, but isn't it possible it begins the thought process that God uses in creating that faith of the Hope that is found in Christ ??
I truly believe no testimony is ever spoken without the power of God behind it and His word being spoken in it and through it..... because it is the power of His word that His Holy Spirit brings truth to the heart to believe and then the Holy Spirit creates the walk of faith in healing, deliverance and setting the captive free.... Jesus said, the truth shall set us free and when we are free in Christ we are free indeed.... amen !!
And yes, one of God's greatest instruments in speaking to the heart He is drawing to Himself, the non-believer.... is through the believers mouth by the strength of the Spirit speaking the word of God that is in them, their heart and yes, even sermons can be His instrument as the word is spoken and planting the seed of faith in the heart that God is preparing in drawing them to Himself either then or sometime down the road..... as we know God's word does not come back void but accomplishes that which it was sent forth to do.....
The mouth of the human body is that which I believe is one of the things Jesus said, that we will do greater things.... look how people are able to travel all over the world (missionaries), hey, your mouth is there in Italy sharing right ??.... God uses many ways to share His word of Truth and plan, purpose with the world around each and every believer.....
That is why Jesus tells us to, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.â€(Matthew 28:19-20) .... And we read He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. (Mark 16:15)
Heck, even in Acts 1:8 is a good scripture..... "but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.†So there God does create His power in the testimony of the believer that God draws and creates the faith in the non-believing, unsaved world....
And what are they witnessing about ? Isn't it....That salvation is through Jesus Christ for the remission of our sin ? How would one know that if they had not read the words spoken by God through His Holy scripture.... those words written within those pages have power beyond our comprehension....
There is no other way to be saved but through the drawing of God through the power of His Holy Spirit bringing to the heart the words of faith spoken by and through the Son of God, Jesus Christ.... amen !!
Hi CM!
Of course, if God has given us faith to believe the Gospel, then that is what we naturally want to speak about! And preaching/teaching what we have experienced in our own lives is the best way to be a light unto the world, imo.
My hope is that we give God 100% of the glory, including the faith (big or small) that we have been given. A changed life is what people are moved by, and they will remember that. My own life is a testimony to that.
Yet for them to have faith and believe in the salvation Life that Jesus brought to the world at His death, they don't need more preaching. They need God's Spirit to move "upon the waters." Once that happens, they'll never be the same.
Does God require preaching in order to save someone? No. He can convince someone just by His Spirit. Yet He uses preaching because He tends to move through people. But the people He uses are mere instruments. "One plants, another waters, but God gives the increase." Like a trumpet, that can give a great sound, but is completely useless without the breath of the musician.
Therefore, by telling people that they must do "such and such" in order to be happy, to know God, etc, we put ourselves between God and the person. We block God from working in their own lives as HE sees fit.
Is that why Jesus told His diciples to go out and spread the news? Why did Jesus have disciple at all? Why didn't he just touch everyone's hearts on His own? How would you be able to block God, if God wants something done? It seems that now you are saying the diciples of Christ do more harm than good. No, my friend Christ wants us to speak about Him and help plant the seed in unbelievers. He is using us to draw people to Him.
It sounds like you are telling people to shut up, mind their own business and get out of the way so God can take care of business.
Is that why Jesus told His diciples to go out and spread the news? Why did Jesus have disciple at all? Why didn't he just touch everyone's hearts on His own? How would you be able to block God, if God wants something done? It seems that now you are saying the diciples of Christ do more harm than good. No, my friend Christ wants us to speak about Him and help plant the seed in unbelievers. He is using us to draw people to Him.
It sounds like you are telling people to shut up, mind their own business and get out of the way so God can take care of business.
No, I'm only telling people to think before they act. Words can edify, and they can destroy. Even Christians can destroy if they're not careful.
I'm not saying to not plant the seed. I'm saying that the unbeliever is not responsible for making the seed grow. GOD IS. So we ought to share how God has transformed our own lives, rather than telling people to transform their own lives, when they cannot.
God uses people. I agree. He uses them to achieve His own ends. Sometimes we Christians want to play God...
Even if it hasn't been mentioned before, why not? If there are no standards to meet, nothing to do but wait for God to save you, why not do anything you like? After all, it must not be sin as God surely isn't going to hold you accountable for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Did I say someone here has said it? I made a point, which you obviously fail to understand.
Your point is a fallacy. Your point is if you are saved anyway, you may as well go snort some coke and have sex and live it up.
Let me ask you both, since you are both saved. Are you going out to snort coke and have sex and live it up because you are saved?
"Say unto thine own heart:" I am Mine own Redeemer." << Book of Satan (4:3)
Salvation is only through the blood of the lamb Messiah Jesus (John 14:6 KJV).
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" Ephesians 1:7 KJV
Internal salvation / the god within is literally directly out of the Satanic Bible.
Yet, Christian after Christian says it is up to you.
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