Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is readily apparent to June that a vast chasm exists between the adherents of those who believe in Universal Reconciliation, and those who belive in Eternal Torment. Based on the fact that both camps believe in Jesus as having been God (son of man, son of God) June has a two-fold question:
Apart from the issue of hell, what is it by way of doctrines or dogmas and basic mindsets that UR's and ET's agree on?
Likewise, apart from the issue of hell, what would be the main tenets that both UR's and ET's disagree on? --Because the ever optimistic June can't help but believe that there must be an explanation to the questions above, and would be curious as to what they are, and what others think...
Apart from the issue of hell, what is it by way of doctrines or dogmas and basic mindsets that UR's and ET's agree on?
that we need Christ
Quote:
Likewise, apart from the issue of hell, what would be the main tenets that both UR's and ET's disagree on?
what the cross and Christ accomplished
how effected the cross was in saving sinners
ETers believe the cross was only about 10% effective in saving the lost
while those of us on the UR side believe the cross was 100% effective
There are several types of Universal Reconciliationists but for this thread I think it is acceptable to generalize down to two basic types.
Those that do not believe Christ only is necessary but is one way, and those who believe Christ is necessary and ALL humanity is saved through Jesus and Jesus is the only way.
When it comes to the latter type, ET and that type of UR will agree that Jesus is the Saviour of the world. There is likely some agreement on the power of prayer and that Loving one another is a scriptural teaching.
Those are some things I can think of off hand for agreeement.
It is readily apparent to June that a vast chasm exists between the adherents of those who believe in Universal Reconciliation, and those who belive in Eternal Torment. Based on the fact that both camps believe in Jesus as having been God (son of man, son of God) June has a two-fold question:
Apart from the issue of hell, what is it by way of doctrines or dogmas and basic mindsets that UR's and ET's agree on?
Likewise, apart from the issue of hell, what would be the main tenets that both UR's and ET's disagree on? --Because the ever optimistic June can't help but believe that there must be an explanation to the questions above, and would be curious as to what they are, and what others think...
Thanks in advance.
Take gentle care, all.
HI June, that is an individual question IMO, not all those who believe in the salvation of all agree, same as not all those who believe in ET agree.
For myself I actually disagree on more issues with my fellow brethren who believe as I do in the salvation of all then I do with those who believe in ET.
Like my fellow bro/sis who believe in ET I also believe in the freewill of man, most (not all )universalist don’t believe in the freewill of man.
Like my fellow bro/sis who believe in ET I believe man sends himself to hell (although or view on hell is vastly different) while many in the UR camp believe God planned for man to enter hell (basically that God sends man to hell through His plan)
Those are probably the two biggest issue of disagreement between ET and UR. And maybe throw in the trinity question also.
So the questions cannot be answered as to what UR’est believe that ET’ers disagree on or vise versa as not everyone in each camp believe the same way.
So what do ‘I†agree on with ET?
Do I believe in hell-yes
Do I believe in freewill-yes
Do I believe one must except Christ into their lives-yes
Do I believe faith in Christ is necessary-yes
Do I believe in judgment-yes
For disagreement. I would say that the capacity that Jesus Saves the world, despite that being his purpose is the biggest polar disagreement.
Other spiritual matters you will find a variety of opinions within each side that are very similar to one another. Issues of prayer, fasting, personal responsibility, free will all are debated with in each side individually that does not have a great significant difference betweens camps of ET or UR .
For example the ET camp will debate among themselves about answered and unanswered prayer and so will UR within their own circles and the debates surrounding those with in each camp are very much the same.
There are additional differences between those of the UR group, imo.
-Many URs believe that heaven and hell are literal "places" where people go after death; whereas some do not.
-Many URs believe that unbelievers are "lost" or not "justified" at this moment; whereas some believe that all have already been justified, and that salvation has been placed within every man, woman and child at birth. Only God can "awake" the individual.
It is readily apparent to June that a vast chasm exists between the adherents of those who believe in Universal Reconciliation, and those who belive in Eternal Torment. Based on the fact that both camps believe in Jesus as having been God (son of man, son of God) June has a two-fold question:
Apart from the issue of hell, what is it by way of doctrines or dogmas and basic mindsets that UR's and ET's agree on?
As Phaze and pneuma said, there is disagreement with any circle on any number of details.
As to your question, what do URs and ETs agree on? Perhaps the very basics:
- God exists
- Jesus was His son, the very image of God
Perhaps a few other things.
Quote:
Likewise, apart from the issue of hell, what would be the main tenets that both UR's and ET's disagree on? --Because the ever optimistic June can't help but believe that there must be an explanation to the questions above, and would be curious as to what they are, and what others think...
Thanks in advance.
Take gentle care, all.
Here I see is the main issue. ETs will say they believe in certain things, but when you really dig into it, you can see they do not. ET beliefs are self-contradictory. Let me give you some examples:
1. Jesus is the savior of the world
UR: yes I agree with that.
ET: me too.
UR: Since Jesus is the savior of the world, He must save the world otherwise He would fail at His stated mission.
ET: Oh no Jesus won't save the world.
UR: But you agree He is the savior of the world?
ET: Oh yes He is the savior of the world. He just won't save everyone.
UR:
2. God is in control of all things
UR: yep, God is control.
ET: yes, definitely.
UR: then God is even in control of our salvation.
ET: well in the sense that He offers it to everyone. But He can't control your decision, He's not in control of that.
UR: But you just agreed that God is in control of all thing!?!
ET: Everything except man's will...
UR: So then God is not in control of everything...
3. Salvation is of God, not man
UR: yep, definitely.
ET: agree, we are not saved by our works.
UR: then you agree there is nothing we can do to save ourself.
ET: oh no you have to make the right decision
UR: but you just said salvation is of God and we are not saved by our works!
4. God is love
UR: of course
ET: agree. But God is also just.
UR: why do you use the word "but"? God is love AND God is just.
ET: God is love but He has to be just too.
UR: God's justice is not contradictory to His love.
IMHO this is the essential issue of the debate. ET is self-contradictory in nature, so if you are trying to defend ET you will be forced to believe contradictions. And if you are believing contradictions, then all logic and reason has been thrown out the window.
Apart from the issue of hell, what is it by way of doctrines or dogmas and basic mindsets that UR's and ET's agree on?
Take gentle care, all.
I would hope we all agree that Jesus is the son of God and that he died on the cross for our sins. Because from my Bible tells me, that is all you have to do to go to Heaven. And I would hope most of us are on our way there. I'm not sure what universalist fully believe but I'm hoping it's that.
It is readily apparent to June that a vast chasm exists between the adherents of those who believe in Universal Reconciliation, and those who belive in Eternal Torment. Based on the fact that both camps believe in Jesus as having been God (son of man, son of God) June has a two-fold question:
Apart from the issue of hell, what is it by way of doctrines or dogmas and basic mindsets that UR's and ET's agree on?
AGREE: The Bible is the word of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th
Likewise, apart from the issue of hell, what would be the main tenets that both UR's and ET's disagree on? --Because the ever optimistic June can't help but believe that there must be an explanation to the questions above, and would be curious as to what they are, and what others think...
Thanks in advance.
Take gentle care, all.
DISAGREE: According to ETers, literally translated Bibles are not the word of God. Only interpretively tanslated Bibles are the word of God.
IMO this particluar disgreement is the most basic one that separates ETers from URs.
To clear up misconceptions in the previous answers.
Jesus does offers the gift of Salvation to the whole world-this is agreed. What is disagreed is whether one must accept that gift in this life in order to be "saved".
The orthodox view is that choice is to be made in this life. UR says one does not. It can happen after you die.
As to those who have never heard the Gospel: IMO no one is automatically condemed if they have not rejected the offer, made by Christ.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
agreement and disagreement
