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That was beautifully put, Heartsong ... thank you. I especially appreciated the Abel reference, whose blood cried out for vengeance... a very vivid contrast/foil for the "blood of Christ". That will stick with me.
What is so beautiful in someone falsely accusing Christians being bearers of anti-christ spirit?
What makes an anti-Christ message "anti", is based on all of what has been revealed in the Bible, not just selected few.
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Anti-Christ doctrine denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is Emmanuel (God with us). ....
This is actually correct. Any message that denies that Jesus is the true God and yet true human comes from a false prophet \ teacher and is from the anti-Christ message that God warns about.
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Originally Posted by Heartsong
Anti-Christ spirit is the spirit that continually proclaims that man is seperated from God. ....
Not so. Anti-Christ messages offer an "instead"
God warned that to disobey would result in death (physical and spiritual)Genesis 2:17
God revealed because of Adam's disobedience death comes to all Romans 5:12
God revealed that all are sinners and now fall short Romans 3:23
God revealed his solution (belief in Jesus as their subsitute from sin).
God reveals the treatment for those who believe and those who do not are not the same:
Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
Romans 10:9
That ifyou confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
God reveals those who do not should fear the one who has the authority to damn people
Matthew 10:28 Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
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Originally Posted by Heartsong
That is what the religious Christians do constantly - compare themselves with others and declare that they are "saved" and others are "lost". The Jews did the same thing - they hated the stranger and were selfish with the knowledge of God's goodness and mercy. ....
Another mis-characterization of what Christians do.
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Originally Posted by Heartsong
That is why they became hated - because they always held themselves to be above or seperate from all the other peoples of the world. Paul defined a "true Jew" as one whose heart is circumcised. A circumcised heart is a softened heart - tender in mercy. ....
That is ridiculous. They seperated themselves from other peoples of the world because they were commanded to do so by God in the OT.
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Originally Posted by Heartsong
The anti-Christ spirit is full of vengeance and spite and desires to see others suffer....
Amazing isn't .... just earlier where told that "religious Christian"
..."compare themselves with others and declare"
but you don't see the hypocrisy in comparing yourself to God's truths and declaring your opinions of "instead" message over the justice will of God.
Last edited by twin.spin; 08-29-2011 at 09:31 AM..
Reason: spelling
He is the saviour of the world, because there are no other saviours. It is His title. It does not mean He will save people against their will.
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11These things command and teach.
You teach a different gospel then what we are commanded to teach, that make what you teach an anti-christ gospel.
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11These things command and teach.
You teach a different gospel then what we are commanded to teach, that make what you teach an anti-christ gospel.
Yep, an "instead of gospel" which says God has not reconciled the world to himself through Christ's sacrifice. To turn the good news on its head is anti-Christ. This is done relentlessly and, I assume in ignorance of the truth.
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep." John 10:1-2
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep." John 10:7
"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:22-24
John 3
"16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
That is correct....
One the anti-Christ message that appears here is that salvation is offered even if one doesn't believe. A sinful lifestyle will not be over looked (For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light).
People who despise the written word ends up accusing God of being unfair, unjust and will be shown to hating Jesus for speaking the truth.
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11These things command and teach.
You teach a different gospel then what we are commanded to teach, that make what you teach an anti-christ gospel.
Your accusation above (in bold) is false. I teach what the Bible teaches: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
I already told you what "saviour of the world" means. It is a title, not a promise of universal salvation.
Your accusation is false. I teach what the Bible teaches: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
I already told you what saviour of the world means. It is a title, not a promise of universal salvation.
For one to hold a title one must be able to live up to that title.
King of kings is a title also. does that mean in your opinion that He is only king of some kings.
And the scriptures say we are commanded to teach He is the saviour of ALL, which means what He is is more then a title.
What you beleive is contrary to what we are commanded to teach.
For one to hold a title one must be able to live up to that title.
He is living up to His promise because He brought salvation to all, and promised to save all who believe in Him. If some choose to reject Him, then it takes nothing away from Jesus keeping His promises. He NEVER said he will save everyone, but only those who believe. If He saved even one person who rejected Him, it would make Him a liar.
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King of kings is a title also. does that mean in your opinion that He is only king of some kings.
No, it would not mean that. Obama is the president of all American even those who did not vote for him and even hate him. It does nothing to change his title as president of all Americans. Jesus is "the" saviour as there are no other saviours around.
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And the scriptures say we are commanded to teach He is the saviour of ALL, which means what He is is more then a title.What you believe is contrary to what we are commanded to teach.
You have completely misunderstood the core message of Christ. Unfortunately I think the misunderstanding is deliberate, because the requirement of faith is repeated some 200 times in the Bible, and to ignore them all demonstrates wanton disregard for the word of God. Instead of accepting those verses as the truth you cling to one alternate way of understanding one verse.
Anti-Christ doctrine denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is Emmanuel (God with us). Anti-Christ spirit is the spirit that continually proclaims that man is seperated from God. That is what the religious Christians do constantly - compare themselves with others and declare that they are "saved" and others are "lost". The Jews did the same thing - they hated the stranger and were selfish with the knowledge of God's goodness and mercy. That is why they became hated - because they always held themselves to be above or seperate from all the other peoples of the world. Paul defined a "true Jew" as one whose heart is circumcised. A circumcised heart is a softened heart - tender in mercy. The anti-Christ spirit is full of vengeance and spite and desires to see others suffer. The blood of Christ speaks better things than the blood of Abel -- if you catch my drift.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
That was beautifully put, Heartsong ... thank you. I especially appreciated the Abel reference, whose blood cried out for vengeance... a very vivid contrast/foil for the "blood of Christ". That will stick with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
It has stuck with me. The blood of Christ SPEAKS BETTER THINGS than the blood of Abel. Both speak - but one speaks better things. And of course that reference is from tbe book of Hebrews.
Bless you - Heartsong
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
What is so beautiful in someone falsely accusing Christians being bearers of anti-christ spirit?
We are all Christians here, Finn . . . that is your problem separating and accusing. We are identifying the anti-Christ Spirit in the dogma of vengeance. Christ did not have a vengeful bone in His body! It is that anti-Christ dogma that we seek to identify and remove from Christian teachings.
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Yep, an "instead of gospel" which says God has not reconciled the world to himself through Christ's sacrifice. To turn the good news on its head is anti-Christ. This is done relentlessly and, I assume in ignorance of the truth. 
