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Do you mean like if you have not been baptized,then you really do not have faith?
Suppose one loves their neighbors as themselves thus fulfilling the law, does this person have faith and the evidence of it ?
Hi Paul,
I think so. Actions come from something within that we believe to be true or necessary or important. If I go to a door and turn the handle, I show a type of "faith" in the door that it will open. Nothing particularly "deep" there..
Well said Brian! It is impossiible to have a faith that doesn't manifest itself unless, of course, it is dead. To date, not one example of someone being saved by faith alone has been provided on this thread. That should cause people to rethink their position that faith alone saves if they are honest with themselves.
Katie
Thanks Katie. I agree with you. Actions "indicate faith" more than words.
42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.
That has actually never occurred to me. Romans 14 says that everyone will give an account of himself to God.
And to the scripture from 1 cor 11 you quoted... I've always said that we need to be examining ourselves right now so our stand before and walk with God will be a pleasant one. But that's not an original statement... i got it from the bible.
I can't remember if it was here or another forum, but i've said that other places to. That's scriptural. But the Word of God will judge us and should judge us now.
Hi atomtkirk,
I agree with your blog entry, at least mostly. I agree that we ought to "audit" ourselves, and if we do, we "shouldn't be judged with the world."
Personally, I think the audit should be more regarding works towards others rather than how much we read the bible. "Study to shew thyself approved" has nothing to do with bible study. It means, "strive to shew thyself approved." Completely different meanings.
I don't disagree with the declaration in Romans 14 that we shall all "give account." I just think that those who will "enter in" may be a whole different crowd of people than what the church thinks is going in...
42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.
Faith without works is dead!
Katie
Do you think Jesus Christ was/Is holding it against such believers ?, I know this,if I'm not, I know he's not.
in I Cor. 8:13 it speaks of prophecies, tongues, and knowledge ceasing...
So has knowledge ended, too? I don't speak in tongues so that's not why I posted my comment. Katie said you can't pick and choose and then she did. Then you "chose" part of the verse above to believe (assuming you don't think knowledge has ended).
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl
GM BH,
Speaking in tongues was never commanded, and it had nothing to do with salvation. Jesus commanded baptism and He promised those who believed and were baptized would be saved. I do not believe speaking in tongues exists today. I won't discuss it here because it has nothing to do with the topic. If you'd like to begin a thread on the tongues topic, I will be happy to participate.
Katie
The topic I addressed was your comment regarding "picking and choosing," not about speaking in tongues.
Well said Brian! It is impossiible to have a faith that doesn't manifest itself unless, of course, it is dead. To date, not one example of someone being saved by faith alone has been provided on this thread. That should cause people to rethink their position that faith alone saves if they are honest with themselves.
Katie
You're right. Faith alone doesn't save. Faith plus works also doesn't save. Jesus saves. It is a complete work of God through Christ. Jesus didn't die that we might have the chance to make wise choices, but to be Savior of the world.
Twin, I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.
Katie
Katie,
It probably appears that I'm doing both because it depends on what you're emphasing. I let scripture speak for itself, and the scriptures address many different types inherent struggles that are common in human nature but are opposite of each other... which are:
the works righteous person who is pointing to their efforts
the fruitless believer
At no time can a person have Jesus as some sort of co-saviour, meaning take credit for faith, tithe \ buy their way in, obey the law ect.
For this type of person, scriptures proclaim "by grace alone, faith alone, scripture alone"
Everything is prededicated on whether God see's faith
"withoutfaithit is impossible to please God"
Yet God also looks at the life and searchs the heart.
God's looks at to whom \ what do you really trust
God looks at what your faith really reflect
a fruit tree that is fruitless is useless
God provides a list of what a obvious fruitless fruit tree looks like:
the sexually immoral
impurity and debauchery
"debauchery" ... Excessive indulgence of the appetites; especially, excessive indulgence of lust; intemperance; sensuality; habitual lewdness
idolatry and witchcraft
hatred
discord
jealousy
fits of rage
selfish ambition
dissensions
factions and envy
drunkenness
orgies, and the like
I hope this wasn't too long nor made things more confusing
To understand the quote from 1 Cor 13, you must go back to I Cor 12. A chapter about spiritual gifts.
Here is a passage (always go to the scriptures)
I Cor 12: 4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
Now, you'll notice in in verse 8 Paul mentions the word of knowledge.
This was a spiritual gift. It is not talking about general knowledge. for instance, it has nothing to do with how I am able to read and understand the bible now.
To understand the quote from 1 Cor 13, you must go back to I Cor 12. A chapter about spiritual gifts.
Here is a passage (always go to the scriptures)
I Cor 12: 4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
Now, you'll notice in in verse 8 Paul mentions the word of knowledge.
This was a spiritual gift. It is not talking about general knowledge. for instance, it has nothing to do with how I am able to read and understand the bible now.
Always go to the scriptures for the answers.
I didn't say it was talking about reading. So, has the spiritual gift of knowledge ended? IMO, if you're reading the bible without spiritual knowledge, it might as well be just any other book.
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 10-13-2011 at 09:59 AM..
Reason: spelling
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