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Here are a couple places talking about the seed of faith.
Luke 8 11“This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.
1 Corinthians 3 5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.
Yes, thanks for bringing those to mind. The seed is the word of God. I think everyone agrees that faith comes by hearing the word.
I do believe God is the beginning and the end of our salvation, yet, in the process of God sanctifying our hearts (salvation) we are given a measure of faith to believe. As we act upon it, walking in that faith completely in Him through His word, trusting His righteousness, the fruit of that faith given by His grace through the power of His word when we act upon it, it leads us in the REALITY of who, how, what, God is doing in our life in leading us in His kingdom, His righteousness, our salvation !!
Hope I'm making sense....
So, I believe that faith and works (I like the word action better) do go together because God gives us the faith to believe Him, His word, we act upon it, yet, it is not our works, but God working in us that, WOW, it becomes LIFE, reality to the heart of those who believe.... amen !!
It's kind of like our faith is like a muscle..... if it is not worked, exercised it becomes weak and useless, yet, when it is worked, exercising it, (acting upon it) it becomes strong and stronger in the Lord !!
Good post. Thanks. I'm with you. I don't think it's possible to have faith that doesn't manifest itself in some way. I think Abraham is a wonderful example of that.
Thank you Saved. Even though we have disagreed on some things, I still enjoy your posts. They are always respectful, and they cause me to dig deeper into God's word also.
One of the things I'm looking at right now is what exactly is faith? I know the scripture, Hebrews 11:1, gives us a definition, but what are the aspects of faith. We're told to walk in the steps of Abraham (Romans 4:12). So what exactly does that mean? What is the faith of Abraham?
Did Abraham's faith consist of just believing and trusting in God's promise? Tell me what you think.
Katie
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. (Hebrews 11:1)
Yes, I believe Abraham put his entire hope in God, trusting in His promises. He walked by faith and not by sight. I can't imagine the faith he had to move forward with sacrifing his son. What a test of faith!
I looked up grace, faith, hope, believe, obedience and work in the Bibilical language to see the original definitions from various passages speaking of such. I think it will help you come to understand a little better.
Well only a moment ago you couldn't understand what I was talking about in regards to being persuaded, and now you talk as if you believe that was your experience
I still don't know what you meant by it, as you claim you never humbeled yourself, never repented, or even admitted Christ is your Lord and Saviour.
None of us can take the credit for our own salvation because it all begins and ends with his grace.
You are right, as sinners we do not seek God. He seeks us first, he calls us by the gospel (2 Thess. 2:14 and James 4:8-10).
And I personally do not believe in predestination. He gives grace to ALL of us. See Titus 2:11 and 1 Timothy 2:4 for God's view.
The Bible tells us that even some of the 'elect' will be deceived in the end times. We need to always remain humble and obedient to God, just as Jesus was to the Father.
Philippians 2 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very naturea God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing,
taking the very natureb of a servant,
being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross! 9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Shining as Stars 12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. 14Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe 16as you hold outc the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Greek word for 'work out' means this -
Short Definition: I work out, produce, accomplish
Definition: I effect by labor, achieve, work out, bring about.
Greek word for 'hold out' means this -
Short Definition: I hold forth, pay attention, note, delay
Definition: (a) trans: I hold forth, (b) intrans: I mark, pay attention (heed), note; I delay, stay, wait.
I'm with you SAVED. I don't believe in unconditional election either, which is really where JAA is coming from. God makes the offer to each of us. We are all called by the gospel. We can choose to accept or reject Jesus. This does not take away from the sovereignty of God. God gave us free will to choose or reject Him within His sovereignty. All one needs to do is go back to Adam and Eve. They were given the choice to obey or disobey.
The nature of God that we see throughout the Bible is fair, just, loving. I don't know about you, but my God would never condemn someone eternally without giving them the opportunity to be redeemed. Impossible!
I am not too proud to say God persuaded me into belief, and I believed and humbeled myself and accepted Him as my Lord and Saviour. Boasting? No, far from it. As a matter of fact it is pretty much the opposite of it.
Hi Finn,
I wanted to answer your post about Romans.
We agree that faith comes by hearing the word.
Looking at the (bolded) passage below, I don't think it is saying this is how we get faith. I think it may be saying we have evidence that there is a God, and because of that, nobody has an excuse. Also notice verse 21. It says, "For although they knew God,.." I believe that the true God has always been made known to the Gentiles through the preaching of the patriarchs, the prophets and the judges. So in a way, you could say that the ability to hear the word has always been, and not just in written form. So IMHO, the ONLY way to get faith is by hearing the word of God.
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
I am not too proud to say God persuaded me into belief, and I believed and humbeled myself and accepted Him as my Lord and Saviour. Boasting? No, far from it. As a matter of fact it is pretty much the opposite of it.
Finn, I'm going to guess that you mean God persuaded you into belief through His word, correct?
Katie
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