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Again, what did He persuade you to do? If you never ackowlwdged God as your Lord and Saviour (and still don't), then what did He "win you over" to?
Finn,I pcamps was persuaded to do nothing,I was won over in my heart by what He did for me,if this does not fit your criteria then you will have to get over it.
What dId he win me over to ?, Himself.
Do you not believe that God is the CAUSE of at least what effects you for good ? Yes or No. Do you not also believe, that it is God that WORKS in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure ?
Now I don't know about you,but all that he's ever done in my life,is because he takes pleasure in doing so.
God will keep us in the faith if that is what we desire and work for. God tests our faith in Him. Satan wants to steal our faith away from God. It is not God's fault if we backslide and end up following Satan instead.
Matthew 24 9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
We need to stand firm with the help of God. I do not believe He does all the work for us.
Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
This is why faith is considered a work, an act of submission and obedience. We must always seek Him.
We've all been gifted with grace, and believers in Him need to stand firm in our faith in order to finish the race here on earth.
Acts 20:24
However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me --the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
Thanks so much for your post, Saved, and for your concern for the truth.
It's just that as I've studied this topic, I find myself unable to see any basis for us to take any credit for any aspect of our salvation.
What I've noticed is that God seems to have written the Bible for us to really dig in and search out a matter. Before I will come to a conclusion, I try to make certain that what I've concluded is in harmony with everything esle the Bible might have to say on a particular matter (I am quite sure you believe this, as well).
The thing is that as I go along I find something else in the Scriptures that I haven't considered, and therefore I have to re-evaluate my conclusion. This, I trust, will be the case until we're caught up on that last day to be with the Lord forever.
I remember one time we looked at this matter of seeking God. First we looked at Jeremiah 29:13, where God says, "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart".
The we saw in Romans 3:11 (quoting from Ps 14) that there is none that seek after God. Along with this, we saw in Jeremiah 17 that the heart of man is desperately wicked.
We wondered how we might reconcile these statements. We saw further that God speaks of giving a "new" heart. Then I saw how it could be possible to seek Him and believe on Him in/with my heart. It wouldn't be until God would change my heart that such a thing could be possible.
This was just a bit of an intro; but I simply wanted to transition toward my comment. There are many verses that say "whosoever will" with regard to believing on Christ for salvation. And these verses are 100% true and trustworthy.
But it's not until we search further that we find that those who 'will' are the ones whom God enables to do so. If my heart is desperately wicked, and by nature I cannot receive the truth found in the gospel message, how then will I come to believe the message?
I will share more in subsequent posts. But when we search the Scriptures, we find that God has purposed that He will have a people for Himself. That's why we can have confidence in a verse like Philippians 1:6, where God promises that "he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ", and that marvelous truth found in John 10:
John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I'll stop here (you know how easy it is to just continue on about these things
But I am so thankful to the Lord that my salvation is totally His work, and in that I can truly take comfort and have confidence. If I were in any way responsible for any part of whether I am or remain saved, it would be a disaster for me (those verses that tell us to hold fast in the faith are simply indicators of whether we are actually saved in the first place).
I'll leave us with a passage from 1 John 2 that has meant a great deal to me.
1 John 2:18-19
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Thanks so much for your post, Saved, and for your concern for the truth.
It's just that as I've studied this topic, I find myself unable to see any basis for us to take any credit for any aspect of our salvation.
What I've noticed is that God seems to have written the Bible for us to really dig in and search out a matter. Before I will come to a conclusion, I try to make certain that what I've concluded is in harmony with everything esle the Bible might have to say on a particular matter (I am quite sure you believe this, as well).
The thing is that as I go along I find something else in the Scriptures that I haven't considered, and therefore I have to re-evaluate my conclusion. This, I trust, will be the case until we're caught up on that last day to be with the Lord forever.
I remember one time we looked at this matter of seeking God. First we looked at Jeremiah 29:13, where God says, "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart".
The we saw in Romans 3:11 (quoting from Ps 14) that there is none that seek after God. Along with this, we saw in Jeremiah 17 that the heart of man is desperately wicked.
We wondered how we might reconcile these statements. We saw further that God speaks of giving a "new" heart. Then I saw how it could be possible to seek Him and believe on Him in/with my heart. It wouldn't be until God would change my heart that such a thing could be possible.
This was just a bit of an intro; but I simply wanted to transition toward my comment. There are many verses that say "whosoever will" with regard to believing on Christ for salvation. And these verses are 100% true and trustworthy.
But it's not until we search further that we find that those who 'will' are the ones whom God enables to do so. If my heart is desperately wicked, and by nature I cannot receive the truth found in the gospel message, how then will I come to believe the message?
I will share more in subsequent posts. But when we search the Scriptures, we find that God has purposed that He will have a people for Himself. That's why we can have confidence in a verse like Philippians 1:6, where God promises that "he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ", and that marvelous truth found in John 10:
John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I'll stop here (you know how easy it is to just continue onabout these things
But I am so thankful to the Lord that my salvation is totally His work, and in that I can truly take comfort and have confidence. If I were in any way responsible for any part of whether I am or remain saved, it would be a disaster for me (those verses that tell us to hold fast in the faith are simply indicators of whether we are actually saved in the first place).
I'll leave us with a passage from 1 John 2 that has meant a great deal to me.
1 John 2:18-19
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Thank you so much for allowing me to share.
God bless.
None of us can take the credit for our own salvation because it all begins and ends with his grace.
You are right, as sinners we do not seek God. He seeks us first, he calls us by the gospel (2 Thess. 2:14 and James 4:8-10).
And I personally do not believe in predestination. He gives grace to ALL of us. See Titus 2:11 and 1 Timothy 2:4 for God's view.
The Bible tells us that even some of the 'elect' will be deceived in the end times. We need to always remain humble and obedient to God, just as Jesus was to the Father.
Philippians 2 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very naturea God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing,
taking the very natureb of a servant,
being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross! 9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Shining as Stars 12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. 14Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe 16as you hold outc the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Greek word for 'work out' means this -
Short Definition: I work out, produce, accomplish
Definition: I effect by labor, achieve, work out, bring about.
Greek word for 'hold out' means this -
Short Definition: I hold forth, pay attention, note, delay
Definition: (a) trans: I hold forth, (b) intrans: I mark, pay attention (heed), note; I delay, stay, wait.
No persuaded and won over by his wonderful grace that appeared to me and that is towards me.No begging involved for me I'm afraid.
I do not understand what this "persuation" and "winning over" means unless you tell me what God persuaded you to do? The title of the thread is that people are saved by faith alone, but in your case even faith played no role.
I do not understand what this "persuation" and "winning over" means if you argue you had no role in the process. What did God persuade you to do? The title of the thread is that people are saved by faith alone, but in your case even faith played no role.
How many times do you need to be told I did nothing .Being fully PERSUADED that God had the power to do what he promised.Romans4:21.
It is because of HIM that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
Where is the "i"doing something in this scripture ?
Next verse explains why I never refer to I in anything regarding my salvation
Therefore as it is written:"let him who boasts boast in the Lord".
What is my boast ?. That Jesus Christ is my Savior.
How many times do you need to be told I did nothing .
It is because of HIM that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
Where is the "i"doing something in this scripture ?
Next verse explains why I never refer to I in anything regarding my salvation
Therefore as it is written:"let him who boasts boast in the Lord".
What is my boast ?. That Jesus Christ is my Savior.
I am not too proud to say God persuaded me into belief, and I believed and humbeled myself and accepted Him as my Lord and Saviour. Boasting? No, far from it. As a matter of fact it is pretty much the opposite of it.
I am not too proud to say God persuaded me into belief, and I believed and humbeled myself and accepted Him as my Lord and Saviour. Boasting? No, far from it. As a matter of fact it is pretty much the opposite of it.
Well only a moment ago you couldn't understand what I was talking about in regards to being persuaded, and now you talk as if you believe that was your experience
Tell me this Finn Jarber. When did God open your eyes,before or after you believed ?
This, I believe, is the key point in understanding everything else.
If the Bible tells us that we are "dead in trespasses and sins", and that God has to "make us alive", then at what point can we take any credit for any part of our salvation?
I believe you have very correctly stated that "God is the beginning and the end of our salvation". It's not really any different from where Hebrews 12:2 refers to Jesus as "the author and finisher of our faith".
Praise God that it is not ultimately contingent upon my efforts. For then I could not have any confidence. Truly God "shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord". (1 Cor 1:8-9).
God bless.
Hi JAA,
Very good post. Thank you.
I agree with you that we can never take credit for our salvation.
You have mentioned in several of your posts that we are made alive in Christ. I completely agree that we, indeed, are made alive in Christ. According to the following scriptures this happens WHEN we are buried with Christ in baptism. Notice I do not say it is HOW we are made alive in Christ. Nothing we do could make us alive in Christ.
According to Colossians 2, baptism is a work of God, which completely agrees with what we are both saying. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves. It is the work of God. We cannot boast in our salvation, and God doesn't owe it to us. It is by grace through faith that we are saved.
Ephesisans 2: 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Colossians 2: 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised byChrist, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
Romans 6:3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
I for one am glad you started this thread. It's interesting to see the many different views. Too, it has moved me to dig even deeper into God's Word concerning my own faith. So...thanks!
Thank you Saved. Even though we have disagreed on some things, I still enjoy your posts. They are always respectful, and they cause me to dig deeper into God's word also.
One of the things I'm looking at right now is what exactly is faith? I know the scripture, Hebrews 11:1, gives us a definition, but what are the aspects of faith. We're told to walk in the steps of Abraham (Romans 4:12). So what exactly does that mean? What is the faith of Abraham?
Did Abraham's faith consist of just believing and trusting in God's promise? Tell me what you think.
Katie
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