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The largest obstacle over works in this issue is that it often appears as if one person is judging another persons salvation by the appearance of their physical actions on earth.
Works IS impossible not to have if you have true faith, but is an issue that WHAT those works will be is between a person and God rather than one person telling another what they must do specifically.
The believer and unbeliever. Whether you like it or not JAA, God see's you no different to your unbelieving neighbor.
You've had some good posts, but I do have a concern with this one.
We cannot conclude that God sees the believer and the unbeliever in the same way. We see in Galatians 3:26 that we are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Already this narrows the scope.
There is an abundance of Scripture that tells us that we must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" in order to be saved. Many have not done this, and many will not, ever.
I would like to cite Galatians 3:22, as I believe it has something to say on this matter.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Again, the promise "by faith in Jesus Christ" is associated with believers. Salvation only pertains to those who come to saving faith in Christ. I know some have said here that even unbelievers (who ramain unbelievers) will be saved, as well. You can see that this is not supported by the Bible. We're told that whoever comes will be saved, but not those who continue in unbelief.
And it truly has nothing to do with whether "I like it or not". I wish everyone would be saved. That would be wonderful. But I believe the Scriptures are clear that such will not be the case. Christ promises that those who come to Him He will "in no wise cast out". This must be our focus...that we are to come to Him.
You speak often about having "life" in Christ, and you speak correctly. John 20:31 tells us, " but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name".
I agree with what you say for the most part. The only thing I would take issue with is the use of the term "faith alone." I would agree with you, however, that faith is what initiates the whole process. But then it seems people have different views of what faith is. I believe it is alive and active otherwise it is simply belief, which is exactly what the demons had.
One of the problems I see is that people think that every single thing we do is a work. That, to me, is extreme. For example:
Luke 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.” 28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
If we love the Lord God and love our neighbor as ourselves, is that a work?
We tend to think of works as only physical actions, but notice that God commanded men to love Him, and Jesus said is is something to be done. Though it is an attitude, love isn't automatic. It comes about through conscious effort on our part.
So does that make it a work?
If we do as God commanded us to do, are we trying to earn our salvation? Isn't it possible to do the things God asks us to do because we love and trust in his promises, and not because we think He owes us something or because we are trying to earn salvation?
Do you see what I am saying? It gets to the point of ridiculous.
Does Paul mean all works when he says, "not of works?" Does he include faith in that category of works? Afterall, faith is a work according to John 6:29. Does he include confessing Jesus as Lord with your mouth?
Katie
God commands us to love him ? Are you serious ?, love does not command anything ?
Yes I know what Jesus said. We love him not because we are commanded to, we love him because he first loved us.
When we are loving our neighbor as ourselves we are loving God.
For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
1john 4:20
And it's the reason the scripture says we fulfill the whole law if we love our neighbor as ourselves.
You've had some good posts, but I do have a concern with this one.
We cannot conclude that God sees the believer and the unbeliever in the same way. We see in Galatians 3:26 that we are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Already this narrows the scope.
There is an abundance of Scripture that tells us that we must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" in order to be saved. Many have not done this, and many will not, ever.
I would like to cite Galatians 3:22, as I believe it has something to say on this matter.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Again, the promise "by faith in Jesus Christ" is associated with believers. Salvation only pertains to those who come to saving faith in Christ. I know some have said here that even unbelievers (who ramain unbelievers) will be saved, as well. You can see that this is not supported by the Bible. We're told that whoever comes will be saved, but not those who continue in unbelief.
And it truly has nothing to do with whether "I like it or not". I wish everyone would be saved. That would be wonderful. But I believe the Scriptures are clear that such will not be the case. Christ promises that those who come to Him He will "in no wise cast out". This must be our focus...that we are to come to Him.
You speak often about having "life" in Christ, and you speak correctly. John 20:31 tells us, " but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name".
I agree with all the scriptures you quoted,but God created us all in his image and it's that image he see's in all of us.I know this is not a popular view, even among my universalist friends I'm sure it's not. Do you think the prodigals father saw him a different light to the son that stayed at home ?
While he was a long way off his father saw him,praise God that those who are a long way off, that our heavenly Father see's them for who they are, and not what they became.
I agree with all the scriptures you quoted,but God created us all in his image and it's that image he see's in all of us.I know this is not a popular view, even among my universalist friends I'm sure it's not. Do you think the prodigals father saw him a different light to the son that stayed at home ?
While he was a long way off his father saw him,praise God that those who are a long way off, that our heavenly Father see's them for who they are, and not what they became.
But this is the essence of the problem...who we are. We're familiar with that verse in Jeremiah 17 that talks about the heart of man being desperately wicked. And we know the verse in Isaiah 64 that tells us that 'all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags' (and how we all are as an "unclean thing").
And this is why God speaks of changing the heart of the one whom He saves, and puts His Spirit within him/her. Outside of this intervention on God's part, we cannot grasp the truth or the reality of our need of salvation. For the most part, we like to think we're "pretty good".
You speak of those who are "a long way off". God speaks to that, as well. Please note:
Eph 2:11-13
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands-- 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
This truth applies to all who are in Christ. Those who are "far off" can be brought near by the blood of Christ, but not by any other means. And this is seen in those who break before God and cry out for mercy, as did the publican in the parable in Luke 18. You remember what the publican said when it was his turn to pray: "13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner". Jesus said it was he that went down to his house justified, rather than the Pharisee...."for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted".
We read in Psalm 34:18 that "The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Such cannot be the case with us unless God opens our eyes to our need of salvation, and why we need it. But, I repeat, anyone at all who comes will, indeed, be saved by God's mercy and grace.
When we are loving our neighbor as ourselves we are loving God.
That's not true. I know a couple in my neighborhood that are the sweetest people you will ever meet. They will bring you soup when you are sick. They'll
Drop what they are doing to help you with a project in your yard... They are charitable. They do not believe in God. They don't care if you believe. But they categorically deny any higher power. They are very polite if you bring up God in any way but they quickly leave. In many ways I admire Their caring nature.
That's not true. I know a couple in my neighborhood that are the sweetest people you will ever meet. They will bring you soup when you are sick. They'll
Drop what they are doing to help you with a project in your yard... They are charitable. They do not believe in God. They don't care if you believe. But they categorically deny any higher power. They are very polite if you bring up God in any way but they quickly leave. In many ways I admire Their caring nature.
They do not love God.
You admire it, and God doesn't ?. O I forgot God see's those that do not believe as filthy rags.
So what is loving your neighbor as yourself ?, Jesus Christ Laid huge importance on it. The least you did to one of these,you did unto me. Matt 25:40.
JAA , did the prodigals Father see his son different to his other son ?.
There are components within this parable which line up with biblical salvation. We see the son humbled as he became aware that his choice to venture off was to no real avail, and that the only thing he could do was to go back to his father. The father gladly received him. There was rejoicing.
The following passage in Luke 15 are the verses just before the parable of the prodigal son:
Luke 15:4-10
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. 7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. 8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? 9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost. 10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
The next several verses tell the parable of the prodigal son, which apparently underscore or serve as a commentary on the above passage. We can note how in v.18 the son says, "I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee". This is clearly a picture of repentance.
But this probably doesn't help us with the notion that God views believers and unbelievers alike. The only unbelievers who would be an exception would be those who eventually come to a saving knowledge of Christ.
That's not true. I know a couple in my neighborhood that are the sweetest people you will ever meet. They will bring you soup when you are sick. They'll
Drop what they are doing to help you with a project in your yard... They are charitable. They do not believe in God. They don't care if you believe. But they categorically deny any higher power. They are very polite if you bring up God in any way but they quickly leave. In many ways I admire Their caring nature.
They do not love God.
mmm....yes I've had neighbors like this before. But I never questioned or asked about their belief in God. You can tell who's genuine and who's just out there being a nosy neighbor. I've never been one to even bring up God or Jesus in a conversation......hardly ever. I see with my eyes, my instinct, my heart most of all. You probably just have very nosy neighbors, that's all there is to it.
I was just reminded of my other neighbor in this neighborhood I used to live in of nothing BUT nosy neighbors......we prayed together one day, right out in the open, holding hands and she was very fervent in her prayer.......I don't even remember what we prayed about now but it reminded me of growing up with a Father that demanded you hold hands and pray like nobody's business, public or private, don't care what anyone else thinks.
I guess I view spirituality as a personal thing and should be more private in nature. It ALWAYS embarrassed me when we went out to eat as a family and the whole table had to join hands and pray. Now, not so much but I still feel like bowing your heads and sharing in a quiet prayer works just as well. I notice when people do that. I've never in all my years witnessed another family joining hands and praying.....never seen it. Have any of you? I mean, in public, not private. It's like a dang seance or something.
Thanks for letting me vent.
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