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Something that seems very paradoxical about the Crucifixion has come to mind.
It has been said that if the Jews had accepted their Messiah, then the Kingdom would have been established at that time. That probably isn't right, as the "kingdom is not of this world"...but beyond this...how do we reconcile the following:
A) It seems that Satan's influence made the Jews reject Jesus. It wasn't the Holy Spirit, right? SATAN WANTED TO CRUCIFY CHRIST, AND HAVE HIM REJECTED
AND also:
B) It seems that Satan's influence made Peter say "God forbid it, Lord! This must never happen to you" and then Jesus said "Get the behind me Satan." AND SO HERE SATAN DID NOT WANT TO CRUCIFY CHRIST
So which is it...because surely it cannot be both.
C) Furthermore...Jesus, on the cross, said "My God, My God...why have you forsaken me?" when God the Father did not answer his repeated prayers to be saved from crucifixion.
So...how can we reconcile Jesus saying that Peter was inspired of Satan, when he himself on the cross, and through his own prayers...wanted the crucifixion not to happen? Why did the Holy Spirit even allow Jesus to do this, if he was in perfect unity with God?
The only way to reconcile A) and B) above...would be to say that God the Father WANTED the Jews to reject the Christ...and so it was not Satan at all that influenced this, but God the Father. And maybe that actually does line up with OT prophecy better. Any thoughts...and how to we reconcile part C)?
Something that seems very paradoxical about the Crucifixion has come to mind.
It has been said that if the Jews had accepted their Messiah, then the Kingdom would have been established at that time. That probably isn't right, as the "kingdom is not of this world"...but beyond this...how do we reconcile the following:
A) It seems that Satan's influence made the Jews reject Jesus. It wasn't the Holy Spirit, right? SATAN WANTED TO CRUCIFY CHRIST, AND HAVE HIM REJECTED
AND also:
B) It seems that Satan's influence made Peter say "God forbid it, Lord! This must never happen to you" and then Jesus said "Get the behind me Satan." AND SO HERE SATAN DID NOT WANT TO CRUCIFY CHRIST
So which is it...because surely it cannot be both.
C) Furthermore...Jesus, on the cross, said "My God, My God...why have you forsaken me?" when God the Father did not answer his repeated prayers to be saved from crucifixion.
So...how can we reconcile Jesus saying that Peter was inspired of Satan, when he himself on the cross, and through his own prayers...wanted the crucifixion not to happen? Why did the Holy Spirit even allow Jesus to do this, if he was in perfect unity with God?
The only way to reconcile A) and B) above...would be to say that God the Father WANTED the Jews to reject the Christ...and so it was not Satan at all that influenced this, but God the Father. And maybe that actually does line up with OT prophecy better. Any thoughts...and how to we reconcile part C)?
Satan wanted Chaos and God wanted Order, Satan tries to create chaos but God brings order. This is why God gave us His Word within the OT, He knew what would happen and that Satan would try to stop it from happening but fail. All 3, A,B, and C are Gods Order in light of Satans attempt at Chaos, Prophecies fulfilled.
Satan wanted Chaos and God wanted Order, Satan tries to create chaos but God brings order. This is why God gave us His Word within the OT, He knew what would happen and that Satan would try to stop it from happening but fail. All 3, A,B, and C are Gods Order in light of Satans attempt at Chaos, Prophecies fulfilled.
Excellent!! Yes...I agree..Order and Chaos are at the heart of this.
Great post!
This is why Satan ultimately fails also. He works against himself in this way and his own efforts crumble.
Last edited by TwoWitnesses; 10-01-2011 at 12:58 PM..
My sheep hear my voice,you misunderstand because you are not my sheep.Jesus was sending a message to the world that because they are dead in there sins God has forsaken them and they are wondering why.He was not actually asking the Father why, because He knew what was happening and why.Jesus was God the Father portraying how man could become His son.That is why He always spoke of the son of man as HE and not himself.Jesus also said "I do not seek my own glory there is One who seeks it and it is he who judges".So if Jesus does not judge but then scripture says the son of man judges and the son of man is son of God it clearly shows Jesus was not actually the son.So if Jesus was not actually the son then who is?Those who do the will of God and the will of the son.There are other things Jesus said that show He was the Father such as "I'm going back to the Father." Why would He say it in that manner if He was not actually the Father.Or another verse where he says "Once I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to myself." But in another verse He says " No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws Him." Again it shows He was God the Father. How else could He have done all those miracles. He came to show us the way and He won't be back until we become the son.
I am the light of the world, no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness cause he shall possess the light of life.Jesus and I are One He sent me.
"Almighty God judges no one, but has given all judgment over to the son so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me possesses eternal life and will not come under condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
Truly I tell you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who have heeded it will live.
For just as the Father has life in himself, so too has he given his Son the possession of life in himself. And he gave him power to pass judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in there tombs will hear his voice and will come out, all those who do right shall rise to live, the evil doer’s deeds will rise to be damned. I do nothing on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I’m not seeking my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
The Lord who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. Search the scriptures if you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on, let them find rest from their labors, for their works accompany them”.
The Lord’s judgments are true and just.
The ways of the Lord are true and just
Praise The Lord, all you his servants, you who revere him, small and great.
These words are true; they come from God. The wicked shall still act wickedly, and the filthy shall still be filthy. The righteous must still do right, and the holy must still be holy."
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.
I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star".
My sheep hear my voice,you misunderstand because you are not my sheep.Jesus was sending a message to the world that because they are dead in there sins God has forsaken them and they are wondering why.
So this is what you think Jesus meant when he said "My God, My God..why have you forsaken me?"
Wow you read a lot of stuff into scripture that isn't there. Why would you follow scripture at all bro..if you are going to take such liberties and then claim such authority on your own behalf. What are ye smokin bro?
Does anyone else agree with this guy...that Jesus was speaking on behalf of the people?
I think if his crucifixion was to save them...then it means God didn't forsake them. He sent his only begotten son because he DIDN'T forsake us.
You certainly like to judge people a lot, only when they have legitimate questions. It's ok brother...by your own judgment you shall be judged. I have always understood Christ's actual message...with ease. But I have questions now..and you know I have a Jewish father that I want to reach...because I've explained that to you...and that is largely what motivates me to answer the harder questions.
My sheep hear my voice,you misunderstand because you are not my sheep.Jesus was sending a message to the world that because they are dead in there sins God has forsaken them and they are wondering why.He was not actually asking the Father why, because He knew what was happening and why.Jesus was God the Father portraying how man could become His son.That is why He always spoke of the son of man as HE and not himself.Jesus also said "I do not seek my own glory there is One who seeks it and it is he who judges".So if Jesus does not judge but then scripture says the son of man judges and the son of man is son of God it clearly shows Jesus was not actually the son.So if Jesus was not actually the son then who is?Those who do the will of God and the will of the son.There are other things Jesus said that show He was the Father such as "I'm going back to the Father." Why would He say it in that manner if He was not actually the Father.Or another verse where he says "Once I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to myself." But in another verse He says " No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws Him." Again it shows He was God the Father. How else could He have done all those miracles. He came to show us the way and He won't be back until we become the son.
I am the light of the world, no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness cause he shall possess the light of life.Jesus and I are One He sent me.
"Almighty God judges no one, but has given all judgment over to the son so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me possesses eternal life and will not come under condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
Truly I tell you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who have heeded it will live.
For just as the Father has life in himself, so too has he given his Son the possession of life in himself. And he gave him power to pass judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in there tombs will hear his voice and will come out, all those who do right shall rise to live, the evil doer’s deeds will rise to be damned. I do nothing on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I’m not seeking my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
The Lord who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. Search the scriptures if you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on, let them find rest from their labors, for their works accompany them”.
The Lord’s judgments are true and just.
The ways of the Lord are true and just
Praise The Lord, all you his servants, you who revere him, small and great.
These words are true; they come from God. The wicked shall still act wickedly, and the filthy shall still be filthy. The righteous must still do right, and the holy must still be holy."
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.
I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star".
I am son of man.
Jesus went to "the right hand of the Father." He could not go to the right hand of himself.
There are also certain things that only the Father knows, that Jesus said he didn't know...which again shows the distinction. There are tons of examples of the difference. But everyone knows all that stuff already. Again...what are you smoking?
Many others did miracles also...like Elijah and Moses. Are they the father also?
My sheep hear my voice,you misunderstand because you are not my sheep.Jesus was sending a message to the world that because they are dead in there sins God has forsaken them and they are wondering why.He was not actually asking the Father why, because He knew what was happening and why.Jesus was God the Father portraying how man could become His son.That is why He always spoke of the son of man as HE and not himself.Jesus also said "I do not seek my own glory there is One who seeks it and it is he who judges".So if Jesus does not judge but then scripture says the son of man judges and the son of man is son of God it clearly shows Jesus was not actually the son.So if Jesus was not actually the son then who is?Those who do the will of God and the will of the son.There are other things Jesus said that show He was the Father such as "I'm going back to the Father." Why would He say it in that manner if He was not actually the Father.Or another verse where he says "Once I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to myself." But in another verse He says " No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws Him." Again it shows He was God the Father. How else could He have done all those miracles. He came to show us the way and He won't be back until we become the son.
I am the light of the world, no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness cause he shall possess the light of life.Jesus and I are One He sent me.
"Almighty God judges no one, but has given all judgment over to the son so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me possesses eternal life and will not come under condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
Truly I tell you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who have heeded it will live.
For just as the Father has life in himself, so too has he given his Son the possession of life in himself. And he gave him power to pass judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in there tombs will hear his voice and will come out, all those who do right shall rise to live, the evil doer’s deeds will rise to be damned. I do nothing on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I’m not seeking my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
The Lord who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. Search the scriptures if you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on, let them find rest from their labors, for their works accompany them”.
The Lord’s judgments are true and just.
The ways of the Lord are true and just
Praise The Lord, all you his servants, you who revere him, small and great.
These words are true; they come from God. The wicked shall still act wickedly, and the filthy shall still be filthy. The righteous must still do right, and the holy must still be holy."
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.
Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.
I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star".
I am son of man.
Jesus draws us to himself in a personal relationship...and he said "no one comes to the father, but through me" again making a distinction.
Should I accuse you now of not being of the true sheep? Hardly...because I know that I will be judged the same way that I myself judge...and I know that I couldn't correctly make that judgment..and ONLY GOD KNOWS SUCH THINGS. Stop pretending to be Jesus or God bro. I don't think anyone buys it.
Because God 'allows something', does not mean He wants or approves of it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses
So...how can we reconcile Jesus saying that Peter was inspired of Satan, when he himself on the cross, and through his own prayers...wanted the crucifixion not to happen? Why did the Holy Spirit even allow Jesus to do this, if he was in perfect unity with God?
The only way to reconcile A) and B) above...would be to say that God the Father WANTED the Jews to reject the Christ...and so it was not Satan at all that influenced this, but God the Father. And maybe that actually does line up with OT prophecy better. Any thoughts...and how to we reconcile part C)?
God seeks a LOVE-based relationship with us, which by definition, means that we must be able to freely choose to love Him ... or to reject Him! While God allows that choice, it does not mean that God wants people to reject Him ... 'because He allows it.'
Satan is a created being whose 'role' is to provide an alternative to believing and trusting God. Satan does that through deception and lies. He has no authority to 'force' people to do anything ... or to simply destroy Christians who oppose Him. NEITHER, however, does God 'force' people to love Him or simply destroy those who oppose Him.
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Because God 'allows something', does not mean He wants or approves of it!
