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V. 29 was left out.
John 10:29 - "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
All does include all.
Also, the verses involving "enduring until the end" (Matt. 10, 24; Mark 13) do not speak of eternal security or salvation from sin by believing the gospel. What are they being saved from? What are the circumstances that Christ is referring to? Persecution. Physical deliverance through trial. This is not about salvation from sin.
It's a shame that you believe Christ and the Father are not powerful enough to keep their promise - that you have a choice to override God and remove yourself from His family. You don't - once you are part of Him.
Just like the angel grabbed Lot by the hand and pulled him out of Soddom... so will true believers be placed into His presence.
I am not getting into a long discussion on this - but will just state that once you are in the family of God, you will always be in the family of God.
So you are telling me that if we stand firm, we will be saved from persecution... I thought we would gain that through salvation anyway... I'm sorry but that doesn't quite make sense to me. So if we stand firm against what? The trials of this life, which correct me if I'm wrong, include persecution. So if we stand firm against the trials of this life, which include persecution, we shall be saved FROM persecution... What happens to those who don't? Will their punishment be to be to be still have persecutions in heaven? I don't think so! That's not the heaven that I'm waiting for! And my point still stands... NO ONE can SNATCH them out of the fathers hand, it must be a self chosen decision.
I am being saved daily from my fleshly desires, for it is mainly only by the grace of God that I can continue to stand firm against that which is not of God. The other part is my one/tenth daily decision let the grace of God lead me.
You know, the beauty of it is even though I would advise you that I believe that, that is the wrong choice... You still CAN choose to do such... You aren't forced to believe in God, which makes loving Him so much more real...
So you are telling me that if we stand firm, we will be saved from persecution... I thought we would gain that through salvation anyway... I'm sorry but that doesn't quite make sense to me. So if we stand firm against what? The trials of this life, which correct me if I'm wrong, include persecution. So if we stand firm against the trials of this life, which include persecution, we shall be saved FROM persecution... What happens to those who don't? Will their punishment be to be to be still have persecutions in heaven? I don't think so! That's not the heaven that I'm waiting for! And my point still stands... NO ONE can SNATCH them out of the fathers hand, it must be a self chosen decision.
Regarding the red...
What you are stating is that your word is the ultimate authority - "MY point still stands". The bold is what Scripture says. The bold underlined is YOUR addition - it is not Scripture.
Regarding standing firm... Jesus is not talking to you (or today's church) in Matt. 10, 24 and Mark 13.
In Matt. 10, he is sending the disciples out to preach the kingdom of heaven to the people of Israel - no Gentiles, no Samaritans. Is that the call of the church? No.
V. 28 - "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." So Jesus is speaking of the physical deliverance of the disciples as they go and preach the gospel.
Read the whole context.
In Mark 13 & Matt 24, - Jesus is talking about end times, and the persecution that will accompany those who preach the gospel. I am not as certain on this specifically, but again there is the threat of persecution for those who preach the gospel. This is not about sin, salvation, and personal choice.
I am being saved daily from my fleshly desires, for it is mainly only by the grace of God that I can continue to stand firm against that which is not of God. The other part is my one/tenth daily decision let the grace of God lead me.
That's being sanctified, not being saved.
I don't know where the "one/tenth" comes into play - biblically speaking.
I don't believe in the Old Testament dogma of "Orignal Sin" & "The Fall of Man." I believe those stories were simply used as allegorical tales to explain that, since Man was imbued with Free Will, and thus wanton desires from God, that we have a tendency to fall into Sin, which can therefore separate us from God's Grace.
Nor do I believe in the OSAS school of thought. That would give Man free reign to commit more sin once he was saved; he'd have a sort of Divine Carte Blanche.
And I don't think Jesus believed in OSAS either. The lesson He tried to impart upon us was to do Good Works and to love and help out neighbors, heck, even our enemies. But see? The whole "love your enemy as you do yourself" teachings of Jesus is oft-times too difficult for people. IN fact, for most Christians! Thus, they cling to the OSAS as a sort of life preserver, deluding themselves that they can fall into sin and backslide all they want, because, hey, "I'm saved, and afterall, God Loves a sinner as long as I still believe."
Nonsense.
Jesus' message was simple but not easy. We have to love and help each other, people, and remember that whatever we fo the the "least among us" we do to Him.
Following that message is what separates the Truly Saved from the Wannabe Saved.
Peace out, hombres.
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