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John 15:1-8 “1 'I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.'”
"If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit." You WILL bear much fruit. This isn't a "you might bear fruit" or "you can bear fruit if you really want to". No, "You WILL bear much fruit". If you do not remain in the vine then you shall no longer bear fruit. Therefore if you aren't bearing fruit, you aren't remaining in the vine and "If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burn." And lets keep in mind that when you remain in something, that means that you are in it... You cannot REMAIN in something that aren't already in, in the first place.
At that point Jeshua was sent only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel...And He was not yet glorified by Sacrifice...He also told folks that they had to follow the Law...But look at what Pauls says about that...
The problem is you are not taking into account that God is responsible for our salvation.
We may fall away from Him, but He does not remove Himself from us.
I'm sure you've read Rom. 8:39 and 2 Tim. 2:13 - but you still choose not to believe that God is able to hold you.
It's your loss that you believe you must keep your salvation - and you can't experience the freedom God has for those in His family. And no - it's not freedom to sin and live life as we please.
No it's not freedom to live in the bondage of sin, I agree... And I agree that God is able to hold me... But I do not believe that I am forced to stay in His hands which are made ready to accept me. If I declared that there was no God, and I chose to give into fleshly desires, and refused to receive the forgiveness that God has already made ready for me to accept then, at that point yes I would believe that I have lost my salvation. I do not say that I must keep it, but I just must not walk away from it. BIG difference. It's not by my own strength that I do not give into sin but I rely on the One who is the ultimate judge of my heart.
And regarding Romans 8:39... Read from 31-39, if you will notice that that whole time Paul is simply rephrasing his first statement of "If God is for us who can be against us?" So I say, NO! Nothing can force us to not receive God's love! I feel that it must be by choice! When someone teaches a false doctrine, it's your choice to believe it or not... You aren't forced to believe it! Just as you aren't FORCED to leave the Father's hand... Just as you aren't FORCED to reject God's love... Just as you aren't FORCED to receive it! You aren't FORCED to sin... Just as much as you aren't FORCED to not sin... You aren't FORCED to receive salvation... Just as much as you aren't FORCED to keep it... You aren't FORCED to remain in the vine.
Yes 2 Tim 2:13... No our lack of faith will NEVER affect His faith for He cannot disown Himself... what that implies then, if we lack faith that we disown Him. And (2 Tim 2:12) "If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;" To disown something you must own it first, you cannot DISown what you do not first own.
No it's not freedom to live in the bondage of sin, I agree... And I agree that God is able to hold me... But I do not believe that I am forced to stay in His hands which are made ready to accept me. If I declared that there was no God, and I chose to give into fleshly desires, and refused to receive the forgiveness that God has already made ready for me to accept then, at that point yes I would believe that I have lost my salvation. I do not say that I must keep it, but I just must not walk away from it. BIG difference. It's not by my own strength that I do not give into sin but I rely on the One who is the ultimate judge of my heart.
And regarding Romans 8:39... Read from 31-39, if you will notice that that whole time Paul is simply rephrasing his first statement of "If God is for us who can be against us?" So I say, NO! Nothing can force us to not receive God's love! I feel that it must be by choice! When someone teaches a false doctrine, it's your choice to believe it or not... You aren't forced to believe it! Just as you aren't FORCED to leave the Father's hand... Just as you aren't FORCED to reject God's love... Just as you aren't FORCED to receive it! You aren't FORCED to sin... Just as much as you aren't FORCED to not sin... You aren't FORCED to receive salvation... Just as much as you aren't FORCED to keep it... You aren't FORCED to remain in the vine.
Yes 2 Tim 2:13... No our lack of faith will NEVER affect His faith for He cannot disown Himself... what that implies then, if we lack faith that we disown Him. And (2 Tim 2:12) "If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;" To disown something you must own it first, you cannot DISown what you do not first own.
the whole universe and every detail in it is inside of Hawyaw...And has man discovered the ends of the universe?...
No it's not freedom to live in the bondage of sin, I agree... And I agree that God is able to hold me... But I do not believe that I am forced to stay in His hands which are made ready to accept me. If I declared that there was no God, and I chose to give into fleshly desires, and refused to receive the forgiveness that God has already made ready for me to accept then, at that point yes I would believe that I have lost my salvation. I do not say that I must keep it, but I just must not walk away from it. BIG difference. It's not by my own strength that I do not give into sin but I rely on the One who is the ultimate judge of my heart.
And regarding Romans 8:39... Read from 31-39, if you will notice that that whole time Paul is simply rephrasing his first statement of "If God is for us who can be against us?" So I say, NO! Nothing can force us to not receive God's love! I feel that it must be by choice! When someone teaches a false doctrine, it's your choice to believe it or not... You aren't forced to believe it! Just as you aren't FORCED to leave the Father's hand... Just as you aren't FORCED to reject God's love... Just as you aren't FORCED to receive it! You aren't FORCED to sin... Just as much as you aren't FORCED to not sin... You aren't FORCED to receive salvation... Just as much as you aren't FORCED to keep it... You aren't FORCED to remain in the vine.
Yes 2 Tim 2:13... No our lack of faith will NEVER affect His faith for He cannot disown Himself... what that implies then, if we lack faith that we disown Him. And (2 Tim 2:12) "If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;" To disown something you must own it first, you cannot DISown what you do not first own.
You have no choice and if you believe you do then you are truly not saved...
At that point Jeshua was sent only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel...And He was not yet glorified by Sacrifice...He also told folks that they had to follow the Law...But look at what Pauls says about that...
Romans 6:15,16 "15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?"
So what does Paul say? "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace?" So, shall we? Well, lets see what Paul says... "By no means!" Oh so we shouldn't sin? You might ask why... Well Paul says why: "Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey..." So even if we are under grace we can still become slaves to sin? So maybe Christ did know that He was going to give up His life for the world, and He knew to give instructions for after His death. Just maybe. And I will remind you "whether you are slaves to sin which leads to death,"
Christ was never meant to be a replacement of the law! He's the fulfillment of it! He is our ability TO follow the law!
Hebrews 6 4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseb to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
Hebrews 6 4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseb to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
Do you know Saved33 when you use this kind of scripture AT anyone but yourself, you are actually setting yourself up, guess what for ?.
Peter who was enlightened when he said 'You are the Christ, the son of the living God',also denied Christ 3 times. Yet Jesus said 'Go tell the disciples AND PETER',this was said purposely by Jesus to let Peter and the disciples know that his denial of him was not being held against him.
O love that will not let me go.
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