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Why I believe that "Eternal damnation" is not found in Mark 3.29.
Literally it reads "age-during judgement," Young's Literal Translation (and many others).
Instead of being forgiven, the offender will suffer the consequences.
But the consequences are eonian, not eternal.
Mattew 25:46 reveals what the consequences will do.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS Chapter Eleven
Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).
Regarding the meaning of aionios, many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson. AIÓN – AIÓNIOS AIN -- AINIOS
Sin always has consequences. I don't understand why people think the consequences are "unending torment". Think of all the suffering that is going on right now here in this world in this age. People are enduring all kinds of wrath. We never know when something very trying may befall us personally. We're all declared guilty before God. And yet we trust in the promise that his anger is "for a moment" but his mercy endures forever.
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Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-03-2011 at 01:56 PM..
Reason: off topic
how then can a sinless cosmos suffer everlasting punishment in the lake of fire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
Sin always has consequences. I don't understand why people think the consequences are "unending torment". Think of all the suffering that is going on right now here in this world in this age. People are enduring all kinds of wrath. We never know when something very trying may befall us personally. We're all declared guilty before God. And yet we trust in the promise that his anger is "for a moment" but his mercy endures forever.
Actually, to be consistent with the UR point of view, God's mercy endures for the ages. But that is not a problem, because it is only during the ages that His fallen creatures need God's mercy until Jesus finishes taking away the sin of the cosmos.
I like what Kenneth Brix says here in WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?
“That salvation is of man and HIS works is shared by many of us who are Christians. We’ve portrayed God as having done all He could do to save mankind more than 2000 years ago. So now, supposedly, it’s up to mankind to perform the remaining essential of exercising the good work of faith, or else suffer everlasting consequences.
We have looked upon salvation as a joint effort between man and God, and as primarily what WE do for Him. With this teaching MAN is exalted, self righteousness flourishes, and God is stripped of His sovereignty! But our salvation ‘is not of him that willeth’ (any decision we make of ourselves), ‘nor of him that runneth’ (any effort we put forth of ourselves), BUT OF GOD Who showeth mercy! (Romans 9:16)
Christ was prophesied to take away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), so how then can a sinless world suffer everlasting punishment in the lake of fire?! How absurd! Christ is the Saviour of the world. (Jn. 4:42; 1Jn. 4:14), and He will save it!"
" world" (Greek - kosmos, i.e. universe), see Col. 1:20
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
It should read "age-during judgment," not "eternal damnation."
See Young's Literal Translation, (and fourteen other translations).
A snippet from Etymology of the Word "Damn"
The words "damn" and "Hell" are among favorite words spoken by theologians of the "hell-fire" type. Let us look into the etymology of this word "damn." We may find some interesting surprises. Etymology of the Word "Damn"
Instead of being forgiven, the offender will experience the consequences.
But the consequences are not eternal, but eonian.
While the righteous are enjoying life eonian, the offender will experience kolasis eonian which means age-during corrective chastisement. When the corrective chastisement has been achieved in everyone who needs it, then both life eonian and chastisement eonian will come to an end and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
A snippet from GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."
To the OP. IMHO, you need to start reading the simple bear words of scripture, and not look for alternate meanings to your words to fit a doctrine you imagine. Your argument falls apart very quickly if you just do a word search on the word in English "eternal". Most of the New Testament references on on the Gospel side of the equation. The New Testament refers to eternal salvation, eternal life, the eternal Spirit, the eternal inheritance, and various other things that refer to God or the salvation He offers through faith in Jesus Christ. I checked several of these and they all use the same Greek word, "aiwnon". Now if you are going to argue that punishment is not eternal, then someone could also, God is not eternal nor is His gift of eternal life.
Sorry, but your argument holds absolutely no water.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Matthew 12:32 reads "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."
they will experince the consequence of kolasis aionion
Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33
Matthew 12:32 reads "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."
That is correct.
They will not be forgiven during this age or the millenial age which is the age to come.
Instead, they will experience the consequence of kolasis aionion during those two ages.
But during the age following the Great White Throne judgment their age-during corrective chastisemnt will be achieved.
A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race.
Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’
Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).
Choose the Greek scholars that you think glorify God the most
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson
To the OP. IMHO, you need to start reading the simple bear words of scripture, and not look for alternate meanings to your words to fit a doctrine you imagine. Your argument falls apart very quickly if you just do a word search on the word in English "eternal". Most of the New Testament references on on the Gospel side of the equation. The New Testament refers to eternal salvation, eternal life, the eternal Spirit, the eternal inheritance, and various other things that refer to God or the salvation He offers through faith in Jesus Christ. I checked several of these and they all use the same Greek word, "aiwnon". Now if you are going to argue that punishment is not eternal, then someone could also, God is not eternal nor is His gift of eternal life.
Sorry, but your argument holds absolutely no water.
Of course God is eternal, but that is not what the use of aionios is saying about Him. He is the God in charge of the eons, the eonian God.
Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches. I post on forums to give people an alternate point of view. Had I known that one existed I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 over my inability to love a god who would allow anyone actually prefer to suffer forever rather than eventually reach out for the salvation that God has provided. I'm 73 years old now.
THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT
The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words
If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that is exactly what God is like.
To the OP. IMHO, you need to start reading the simple bear words of scripture, and not look for alternate meanings to your words to fit a doctrine you imagine. Your argument falls apart very quickly if you just do a word search on the word in English "eternal". Most of the New Testament references on on the Gospel side of the equation. The New Testament refers to eternal salvation, eternal life, the eternal Spirit, the eternal inheritance, and various other things that refer to God or the salvation He offers through faith in Jesus Christ. I checked several of these and they all use the same Greek word, "aiwnon". Now if you are going to argue that punishment is not eternal, then someone could also, God is not eternal nor is His gift of eternal life.
Sorry, but your argument holds absolutely no water.
Ignorance and prejudice abounds in the seminaries and this is an example of it. Unending eternal punishment of ANY kind is ludicrous. There is no PURPOSE to it. God is NOT purposeless. The lack of logic, thought, and reason in the seminaries borders on the criminal.
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how then can a sinless cosmos suffer everlasting punishment in the lake of fire?
The consequences are not eternal, but eonian.
they will experince the consequence of kolasis aionion
