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I'm aware of the Kat...I just am quite amazed that there is anyone who thinks this way...this belief is appalling to me and maligns God who is PURE UNCONDITIONAL AGAPE LOVE.
Ultimately, technically, yes, we all have to go through the dying process at some point because of the existence of sin which was introduced by Adam.
But the sin doesn't MAKE us die, which is what you made it sound like.
We all know that illness, accidents, natural causes are what MAKE us die. In other words, sin itself doesn't necessarily kill (though sinful people DO kill/murder).
Dying would never have been part of our existence if the world had remained perfect - sinless. Which is what I think you're trying to communicate, right?
I am waiting for twin to come back and clarify, but I do believe the above explanation is what he was trying to communicate, not that "sin killed the baby", only that all of us now have to die since sin was introduced into this world.
I am waiting for twin to come back and clarify, but I do believe the above explanation is what he was trying to communicate, not that "sin killed the baby", only that all of us now have to die since sin was introduced into this world.
Well I've been trying to get him to clarify what he meant for 48 hours now. So far, he just keeps posting scripture and implying that I'm not interpreting it correctly. He says, "Everything I try to write here is based on God's pov not mine..." Then he mis-states my position as being that people are "prone to do good" when I have clearly stated just the opposite. I've got to conclude that he really doesn't want to be having this dialogue with me. You might try just asking him, "Did sin kill the baby?" and see what kind of an answer you get.
A 2 day old baby that dies is a sinner....and you came to this conclusion just based on the fact that it died????
I said it in an earlier post and I think it bears repeating again...UNBELIEVEABLE!!!!!! And Christians wonder why they are ridiculed???
The above beliefs are just one of the many reasons I do not use the label Christian any longer. Jesus the Christ would not recognize any of his teachings in the beliefs of todays Christians. Just saying...
I know it's hard for a person who boasts about not being a Christian to understand that. But there is a condition called Sudden unexpected nocturnal death syndrome (SUNDS) and Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). There only explanation for those examples is:
"just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—"
“Thereisnoonerighteous, not evenone"
"We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin."
I know it's hard for a person who boasts about not being a Christian to understand that. But there is a condition called Sudden unexpected nocturnal death syndrome (SUNDS) and Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). There only explanation for those examples is:
"just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—"
“Thereisnoonerighteous, not evenone"
"We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin."
For the love of God man, I'm trying to help you here, but you have got to speak plainly instead of talking in circles.
For the record, I am a Christian and I am having a hard time understanding you
Original sin isn't an actual sin we ever commit so it doesn't have to be forgiven.
It's just the human condition, the imperfection we are born with since Adam committed the first sin and and ruined paradise for us
Yes I could agree with that. But (playing devils advocate) then isn't any willful sin originating from that sin-loving human condition?
If so then we could never reach sinlessness anyway... What hope is there in that?
I don't know about you but knowing I'm forgiven through grace causes me to NOT sin. Who wants to sin when you feel so much better in alignment of that paradise regardless of the reality of your past and future sins.
It is that surety of forgiveness and grace for all creation that Jesus taught ie., Living on earth in the paradise god intended while the world watches in awe.
I don't see the need for the distinction between willful or unwillful sin. I qualify for forgiveness and grace no matter what I do. (I'm, apparently, always going to be a sinner.) That inspires me to get better and better at it (living in paradise). Don't you feel that way? Yet I would hardly call myself a Christian anymore.
For the love of God man, I'm trying to help you here, but you have got to speak plainly instead of talking in circles.
For the record, I am a Christian and I am having a hard time understanding you
By the other comments that you make "Original sin isn't an actual sin we ever commit so it doesn't have to be forgiven." explains why you do not.
You are very much mistaken about original sin.
Original sin is what makes a person a sinner, and the proof of that is death.
Original sin is the "cancer" that is in everybody... and it is that which makes everybody who is conceived an object of God's wrath.
Don't you remember that it grieved God that he ever created human because of their evilness Genesis 6:6-7 ... well guess what, that include 2 day old babies.
When God reveals that "all sinned", "no one is righteous not even ONE" that doesn't exclude anybody......... even those precious little two day old babies.
That is precisely the main reason why Jesus came to die on the cross... to remove that curse which occured that befalls onto every single person who is conceived since Adam & Eve.
It's just the human condition, the imperfection we are born with since Adam committed the first sin and and ruined paradise for us
Not according to God.
Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.
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