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John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one
John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son andbelieves in himshall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It's is impossible for a person that is not " totally perfect " to earn Salvation , and that's the reason why (Christ ) Jesus earned it for us , however if a person at any point in time refuses to offer repentances of their's sin to the Lord GOD Almighty , they void the marriage contract between themselves and JESUS The ( CHRIST) and could not enter the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN UNTIL they bring themselves to the point of Repentances.
Amen...but only ONE repentance is the TRUE repentance Howest, not repentance(S)... If you honestly "repent", with Godly sorrow and a truly contrite, broken heart, only to return to your sinful nature, it was never truly repentance at all.
Here's God's opinion...
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
Hebrews 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
That not what we are saying at all , the WORD of GOD says that NOTHING CAN TAKE YOU OUT OF THE HAND OF GOD , however some people do get tired of their's Salvation , and or MAD AT GOD for something that he didn't do for them " and WALK OR JUMP OUT OF THE HAND OF GOD ".
Yes, this is correct Howest, and when they do turn back to their sinful nature, after repenting, then it never was repentance at all...it was a lie. They are children of the devil, not a child of God.
That not what we are saying at all , the WORD of GOD says that NOTHING CAN TAKE YOU OUT OF THE HAND OF GOD , however some people do get tired of their's Salvation , and or MAD AT GOD for something that he didn't do for them " and WALK OR JUMP OUT OF THE HAND OF GOD ".
"Nothing" includes you. You are a part of "anything else in all creation". That is the promise of Jesus Christ. It has been shown to all readers on this thread that Heb 6 certainly does not teach that your salvation can be taken back.
Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
"Nothing" includes you. You are a part of "anything else in all creation". That is the promise of Jesus Christ. It has been shown to all readers on this thread that Heb 6 certainly does not teach that your salvation can be taken back.
Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Again, who is the us...?
Nothing beneath the Almighty; visible enemies he does not even deign to name. Shall be able - Either by force, Rom 8:35; or by any legal claim, Rom 8:33, and c. To separate us from the love of God in Christ - Which will surely save, protect, deliver us who believe in, and through, and from, them all.
Commentary by-Wesley's Notes on the Bible.
US is THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, NOT WILLFULL SINNERS.
Nothing beneath the Almighty; visible enemies he does not even deign to name. Shall be able - Either by force, Rom 8:35; or by any legal claim, Rom 8:33, and c. To separate us from the love of God in Christ - Which will surely save, protect, deliver us who believe in, and through, and from, them all.
Commentary by-Wesley's Notes on the Bible.
US is THE BELOVED OF GOD, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, NOT WILLFULL SINNERS.
Us = Saved people, those who believe, "everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him".
John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son andbelieves in himshall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
No, it does not mean that there is going to be a dialog. I have provided sufficent information from the Scriptures to show that the believer has eternal security. You can either believe it or not believe it. I don't particularly care. You are responsible for what you believe. And you must bear the consequences. All I can do is point out the truth. No legalist is grace oriented. The legalist has no concept of what God's grace really means. And as a matter of fact, if a person has never understood that eternal salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, but has instead attempted to earn his salvation, he isn't even saved, and is on his way to hell.
We can be wrong about something and still be saved, if a person believes in Christ even if they think they must perform works to maintain or keep or earn salvation, they are saved. Not understanding that salvation is by grace alone is not anything that damns a person.
A legalist can be saved if they believe in Christ, just because they may go about practicing their faith differently than others and perhaps do not see grace the same way as someone else does not mean they aren't saved.
We can be wrong about something and still be saved, if a person believes in Christ even if they think they must perform works to maintain or keep or earn salvation, they are saved. Not understanding that salvation is by grace alone is not anything that damns a person.
Moderator cut: delete
Usually, when people study the word, and mature in their faith, they learn the truth about works.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-30-2011 at 07:56 AM..
Reason: deleted the personal comment
Us = Saved people, those who believe, "everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him".
John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son andbelieves in himshall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Then, if these same redemptive, born of God souls turns back to his sinfull nature, there is no more sacrifice for these WILLFULL sins..in other words...or, I should say, in God's words...
Hebrews...
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ - That is, saying no more of them for the present. Let us go on to perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works - From open sins, the very first thing to be insisted on. And faith in God - The very next point. So St. Paul in his very first sermon at Lystra, Acts 14:15, Turn from those vanities unto the living God. And when they believed, they were to be baptized with the baptism, not of the Jews, or of John, but of Christ. The next thing was, to lay hands upon them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: after which they were more fully instructed, touching the resurrection, and the general judgment; called eternal, because the sentence then pronounced is irreversible, and the effects of it remain for ever.
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.
6:3 And this we will do - We will go on to perfection; and so much the more diligently, because, 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:4 It is impossible for those who were once enlightened - With the light of the glorious love of God in Christ. And have tasted the heavenly gift - Remission of sins, sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. And been made partakers of the Holy Ghost - Of the witness and the fruit of he Spirit.
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:5 And have tasted the good word of God - Have had a relish for, and a delight in it. And the powers of the world to come - Which every one tastes, who has an hope full of immortality. Every child that is naturally born, first sees the light, then receives and tastes proper nourishment, and partakes of the things of this world. In like manner, the apostle, comparing spiritual with natural things, speaks of one born of the Spirit, as seeing the light, tasting the sweetness, and partaking of the things of the world to come.
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
6:6 And have fallen away - Here is not a supposition, but a plain relation of fact. The apostle here describes the case of those who have cast away both the power and the form of godliness; who have lost both their faith, hope, and love, Heb 6:10, and c., and that wilfully, Heb 10:26. Of these wilful total apostates he declares, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance. (though they were renewed once,) either to the foundation, or anything built thereon. Seeing they crucify the Son of God afresh - They use him with the utmost indignity. And put him to an open shame - Causing his glorious name to be blasphemed.
Commentary by-Wesley.
Then, if these same redemptive, born of God souls turns back to his sinfull nature, there is no more sacrifice for these WILLFULL sins..in other words...or, I should say, in God's words...
Hebrews...
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ - That is, saying no more of them for the present. Let us go on to perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works - From open sins, the very first thing to be insisted on. And faith in God - The very next point. So St. Paul in his very first sermon at Lystra, Acts 14:15, Turn from those vanities unto the living God. And when they believed, they were to be baptized with the baptism, not of the Jews, or of John, but of Christ. The next thing was, to lay hands upon them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: after which they were more fully instructed, touching the resurrection, and the general judgment; called eternal, because the sentence then pronounced is irreversible, and the effects of it remain for ever.
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.
6:3 And this we will do - We will go on to perfection; and so much the more diligently, because, 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:4 It is impossible for those who were once enlightened - With the light of the glorious love of God in Christ. And have tasted the heavenly gift - Remission of sins, sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. And been made partakers of the Holy Ghost - Of the witness and the fruit of he Spirit.
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:5 And have tasted the good word of God - Have had a relish for, and a delight in it. And the powers of the world to come - Which every one tastes, who has an hope full of immortality. Every child that is naturally born, first sees the light, then receives and tastes proper nourishment, and partakes of the things of this world. In like manner, the apostle, comparing spiritual with natural things, speaks of one born of the Spirit, as seeing the light, tasting the sweetness, and partaking of the things of the world to come.
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
6:6 And have fallen away - Here is not a supposition, but a plain relation of fact. The apostle here describes the case of those who have cast away both the power and the form of godliness; who have lost both their faith, hope, and love, Heb 6:10, and c., and that wilfully, Heb 10:26. Of these wilful total apostates he declares, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance. (though they were renewed once,) either to the foundation, or anything built thereon. Seeing they crucify the Son of God afresh - They use him with the utmost indignity. And put him to an open shame - Causing his glorious name to be blasphemed.
Commentary by-Wesley.
So, are you stating that it is possible (according to your beliefs) that a person could effectively be destined to be eternally separated from God before they die and there would be nothing they could do about it?
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If you honestly "repent", with Godly sorrow and a truly contrite, broken heart, only to return to your sinful nature, it was never truly repentance at all.